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Nanny

Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 10:28 am Post subject: KOH

or potassium hydroxide

i am looking at doing some buckskin

the book is american and calls for wood ash (a tad inconvenient) or potassium hydroxide -lye the americans call it- can be used for soapmaking

is this something i can get this side?

it isn't alum presumably and it isn't caustic soda which is what i use for soap making

i have a feeling that if i go to a chemist they are going to look at me suspiciously if i ask for potassium hydroxide and suspect me of making explosives aren't they?

want to get on with it

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 10:40 am Post subject:
You can get it from soapmaking suppliers, its used as the lye source for making soft soap

Grimnir

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 372
Location: Northants/Beds border

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 11:23 am Post subject:
Ooh, which book is it? I've just got one called Deerskins into Buckskins which is great. I want to do this myself when I get the time, space & skins

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 11:58 am Post subject:
You could possibly use caustic soda as it's potassium hydroxide but it might be too strong. Lime water may also work but I would suggest you don't experiment on your best hides. Alkaline solutions will loosen or remove hair. You can use brains as well "Every animal has just enough brains to preserve its own hide, dead or alive."

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:07 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

You could possibly use caustic soda as it's potassium hydroxide but it might be too strong. Lime water may also work but I would suggest you don't experiment on your best hides. Alkaline solutions will loosen or remove hair.

You can use brains as well "Every animal has just enough brains to preserve its own hide, dead or alive."

Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide & you used to be able to buy it from hardware stores for unblocking drains but I suspect H&S have put a stop to that as its seriously caustic.

Grimnir

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 372
Location: Northants/Beds border

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:43 pm Post subject:

Brains can be used to dress the hide as can eggs and soap & oil but they are used after the 'bucking', which is where the hide is soaked in the lye/lime/ash solution. Bucking helps remove the hair and grain layer.

(says he who's never done it

but I did only finish reading the book last night!)

My book mentions using hydrated lime for the bucking solution as one of the options. This was said to be good for beginners as you can't make it too strong. The correct strength is reached when the water is saturated with lime so that some settles out and will not mix in. (Book is Deerskins to Buckskins my Matt Richards)

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:44 pm Post subject:

TAVASCAROW wrote:

Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide

My mistake thinking of one wrote the other.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:47 pm Post subject:

Grimnir wrote:

My book mentions using hydrated lime for the bucking solution as one of the options.

This is a good, cheap method. Hydrated lime costs about �7 a bag from a builder merchant - cheaper if you have an account. Two bags are enough to fill a dustbin (I know as I have one maturing).

Grimnir

Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 372
Location: Northants/Beds border

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:47 pm Post subject:
Oh, the book says you cn use sodium hydroxide and if that's caustic soda then Wilkinsons sell it

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 12:53 pm Post subject:

Grimnir wrote:

Oh, the book says you cn use sodium hydroxide and if that's caustic soda then Wilkinsons sell it

You should be able to use any caustic solution just be wary of it's strength. Sodiuma and pot. hydroxide, lime water, saltpetre (potassium nitrate) chile saltpetre (sodium nitrate) should all work.

My dad used paraffin on some sheeps skins once. It worked but getting rid of the smell took some time.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 1:13 pm Post subject:

Grimnir wrote:

Oh, the book says you cn use sodium hydroxide and if that's caustic soda then Wilkinsons sell it

Yep. Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide.

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 4:53 pm Post subject:
I thought KOH stood for Knock On Head.

Nanny

Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 6:19 pm Post subject:

crikey, so many answers

i have caustic soda and was wondering if i could use that although that is sodium hydroxide and not potassium hydroxide - hence the question and confusion as often americanisms are different

it is the deerskins into buckskins book by the way....

so if i use the caustic soda, thenwould i need the salt and i am guessing that i would use the same amount of caustic soda as i would KOH

but.....how would i dispose of the leftovers safely

could it go down the septic tank directly rather than down the loo?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 7:00 pm Post subject:

Nanny wrote:

could it go down the septic tank directly rather than down the loo?

In general, caustics and non-metallic are relatively harmless unless in concentration and they soon break down. They are not poisoness as such. If you flush plenty of water down with them then it shouldn't be a problem.

Nanny

Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 08 7:12 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Nanny wrote:

could it go down the septic tank directly rather than down the loo?

even better then

so after i do this one with the salt and alum to keep the hair on one side, i could forget the salt, use perhaps 4 oz caustic to whatever the equivalent uk is to 10 american gallons and then go for it with another skin

as i have my own chickens i shall use eggs as a dressing and then somewhere i shall have to get a pumice stone or something similar to rub....do they still sell pumice stones in boots do you suppose? thinking about it i am away to the chemist in llandeilo tomorrow so will ask if they have some

rinsing is not problem as i have the river at the bottom of the garden, and i also have vinegar to counteract the caustic soda ....for stretching i suppose i can use some of that nearly a mile of bailer twine that we accumulated from the 333 bales...i have made my frame so i will also use twine to tie the skin on the frame and now we have a dehumidifier i won't worry so much about how the hell i am going to dry it in the welsh climate......

ah........still have to consider smoking but perhaps it isn't compulsory

the isbn number for that book is 0-9658672-4-2 if anybody else is interested...got it from amazon

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