Long range EVs

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Long range EVs
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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 22 7:57 am Post subject: Long range EVs
https://thedriven.io/2022/11/03/first-ev-with-over-800km-range-launched-with-new-qilin-battery-and-its-a-people-mover/ Apparently that#s more than the range of 99% of ICE cars. My guess is that ICE sales will basically die by about 2025. It seems even sodium is looking like getting in the EV game in the next couple of years.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 22 9:27 am Post subject:

useful

even if we halve the range( based on practical experience of claims vs performance the way i use things) it is adequate for a drive and a well needed rest while it recharges for distance travel

it does not seem expensive compared to similar ice vehicles, cheaper to run

i spose at a push it could be run on any source of electrical power and be mendable which could make such kit almost make+mend+minor "fuel cost" rather than energy expensive and throwaway

that does not fit the current business model of peeps able to make such decisions

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 22 12:11 pm Post subject:
On the topic of EVs: https://insideevs.com/news/619984/gas-cars-use-electricity-too-not-just-evs/

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 22 3:07 pm Post subject:
Also notable is that EVs hit 17% of sales in September up 51% on the year. That would mean dominance in under 3 more years. That does include plugin hybrids.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15966

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 22 8:20 am Post subject:

One thing that article doesn't mention, and could well be a limiting factor for the sales of EVs is electricity distribution. I understand that some properties in cities, London in particular, do not have the supply to charge an EV overnight and supply enough power for the house. In fact some London houses are still pretty well supplied as they were when there was electric light and one socket per room if you were lucky. There is also no mention of the power losses in distributing electricity only in distributing oil and its products.

At present, none of the vehicles available in the UK are suitable for our type of work, and the only tractors available as far as I can see are the 'Alpine' type which is the size of our little tractor which we use for small diameter timber and would be useless for ploughing etc.

I know they will all come, and I am sure that eventually the British government is going to have to grasp the nettle and sort out the supply problem, and the higher cost of the vehicles will come down as more are made, but sadly there is no sign of it yet.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 22 8:21 am Post subject:

I'm fairly sure that if they can install progressive internet speed infrastructure in streets over the last 25 years, that charging infrastructure is not insurmountable.

BMW are saying their next batteries are 20% more powerful and half the price.

The perpetual issue on EV threads is towing range, but like all things I see this as solvable.
You have to look at the longer picture that EVs have half the parts of ICE and hence are inherently cheaper and the batteries will get a lot lot cheaper.
We will inevitably see cheap tractors and if needed trailers with their own batteries.
Though generally and I think you are probably a case in point, people do not actually tow 500 miles at a stretch and basic ranges will be suffice.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15966

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 22 8:59 am Post subject:

All these things are solvable, but it needs political willpower and money to solve them, and so far this hasn't happened. I am sure one day it will, but when. We have been married nearly 50 years and when first married had a magazine about all this sort of thing. So far, not even the 'solar tiles' have materialised, although a lot of roofs have solar panels. I hope the powerful tractors, real off road vehicles capable of carrying and towing at least 2 cu m of firewood (as per the governments own rules) materialise before I am too old to still be involved in our business.

waerloga

Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 9

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 22 11:53 am Post subject:
A bit bigger than anyone here is after I think but interesting to see what is on the way - EMotive Scarab all-terrain six-wheel commercial EV https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/2022/01/emotive-scarab-all-terrain-six-wheel-commercial-ev/

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15966

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 22 7:58 am Post subject:
Looks good. As they say, a hole that needs to be filled. Electric is getting there, but still has a way to go, particularly for charging.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 22 12:16 pm Post subject:
MR, I'm not sure why you're always so pessimistic about the EV and solar topics... We need as much progress as possible as fast possible, and it's taken a long time to get where we are from where we've been, but these kinds of progress are typically exponential. https://insideevs.com/news/619989/using-lamposts-for-ev-charging-reduces-carbon-footprint/

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 22 7:20 am Post subject:

To be honest I thought that article and the underlying pdf was a bit sketchy.
They are talking 5.5kw chargers and not mentioning that that does not sound like something that can be on every lamppost.
I'd rather read stuff that was upfront on its limitations.
But just because you can't stick them everywhere and solve charging doesn't mean either:
they don't have a role.
you can dig up a street and put different chargers in place.
It was done done for internet, it can be done for EV.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15966

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 22 7:28 am Post subject:

One reason I am pessimistic is because it has been such a long time coming. We now have solar panels; as I said, something more sophisticated was thought to be 'imminent' nearly 50 years ago, and I had an early solar cell back in the 1960s.

I was also for many years an engineer; the person that had to try to make other people's 'good ideas' work, or prove categorically that it wouldn't.

Yes, we do need to go there quickly. It isn't impossible, and digging up the road to lay improved electricity supply, and generate it by clean methods isn't impossible either. Not is laying storm water drains to take roof and street run off in towns and cities where the storm water is frequently taken into the sewage system and overwhelms it every time there is heavy rain. Both need the political and economic will power to make them happen, which in the UK at the moment, seem to be in very short supply.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 22 8:54 am Post subject:

the charger would take most of the safe load of a domestic ring main or the PV from a few smallish domestic roofs

it is not impossible, it would need some infrastructure upgrades at lamppost level or where a house supply can be used

those need a large infrastructure upgrade to power them from the grid, the edison westinghouse tesla sort of thing seems the current(

) situation, it can work well but it needs to be through joined up thinking, which may or may not benefit all or a few.

give me the powers of Maj. Gen. Leslie Groves and we will have a renewable energy infrastructure in 5 yrs and lots of folk get well paid or do it for cost or as an investment depending on the offer acceptable to both interests
that could be done with a "give him whatever he asks for "chit, i aint scared of experts, they would be the first requisition.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 22 9:45 pm Post subject:

The problem I see with electric vehicles is the batteries.
Am I being unreasonable to extrapolate my experience with laptop batteries on to vehicle batteries?
I could presume that they are quite a lot better, but that still means that after not many years they will be fit for scrap...

With a decent box of spanners and some welding kit, you can but an infernal combustion vehicle for £100 and it can last you for years...
I can see no way that that can be the case for battery powered vehicles.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8916
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 22 10:35 pm Post subject:
Vehicle batteries can move on to other jobs when they have finished their vehicle life. There is at present as far as I know development of house batteries using ex-vehicle batteries. Then of course after that the constituent components can be recycled and re-used. I am sure that others can provide the relevant information and quotes.

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