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Jam Lady
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: New Jersey, USA
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sean Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 42219 Location: North Devon
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46217 Location: yes
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 21 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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30% acetic does deserve decent ppe, not very horrid but a bit of training would be best, do you know any chemists?
it is an easy way to make the concentration that is required
5% or 6% just give a bit more time or warm it up a little, it will probably work
chemistry can be quite rough if the basic recipes and conditions are respected within quite broad limits
it might not be best, but it might work
isopropyl is flammable but not very toxic, it still needs caution, treat it like rubbing alcohol if i got the correct local name, not quite as burny, but it will have a go if it can
re dye plants, some are toxic, some might cause "reaction"issues, most are ok even if they smell horrible while preparing them
you might go a few odd colours when you are playing
harmless stuff + good gloves = not explaining why you look like a pict or a former president's face
some of the mordants and lake chemicals are a bit nasty
read up on the health and safety stuff, dyes are fun if played with safely |
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Jam Lady
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 21 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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The inks I intend to start off with are
turmeric with isopropyl alcohol (I have a large jar of the powdered, and local small supermarket has roots. Might try both to see what difference, if any.)
red cabbage with salt and vinegar (5% or 6% vinegar depending on if I give up on finding cleaning vinegar)
red beets with ? (there are options)
black walnut hulls (once they start to drop off trees) with water
and
pokeweed berries (which apparently need no carrier fluid, juicy enough on their own)
I'm also looking for alum, which presenter said could be found with canning supplies. Knock on effect of covid-19, canning jars are an empty shelf item and while I could find fruit fresh and calcium chloride I could not find alum = potassium aluminum sulfate. Online is absurdly expensive and/or insanely large quantity - one pound? Let's get real. Will check spice aisle.
It is clear that good note keeping: ingredients, carrier, additives, quantities, heating, timing - will be critical if possibility of replicating results is to be achieved. |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46217 Location: yes
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 21 7:11 am Post subject: |
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For reference, iso propyl alcohol is also known as propan-2-ol, IPA, or could even be something else these days. As Dpack says, it is inflammable, so go careful on that front, but not too toxic. Still use outside or in well ventilated area.
I wouldn't think 5 or 6% acetic acid would make much difference. Red cabbage will also make a blue dye in an alkaline solution; it is used as an indicator (to show acid or alkali). I actually saw Mrs. Thatcher our former PM demonstrate it in her kitchen at Downing Street on TV.
Red beets may start with a red dye but could turn gold with time. Not a bad colour though.
Black walnuts will make a good dark brown or black. If you either use an old iron pot, or add a tiny bit of ferrous sulphate or some other iron compound, even a bit of rusty iron, it will be blacker.
Try a chemists (drug store?) for alum. You may be able to get some there in small quantities as it has some medicinal uses. In the UK I can buy it there, but sometimes have to order it.
Never use cooking utensils when doing dyeing. Some of the chemicals you use or the materials you use may be toxic, so also wear rubber gloves, which also keep your hands the right colour, work outside or in a well ventilated area, and wear glasses or goggles in case of splashes. Best to wear old clothes or a thick apron too. I don't think anything you are using is particularly nasty, but know nothing about pokeweed. You may already know all this, but putting it in for reference for anyone that doesn't. |
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46217 Location: yes
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 21 8:40 am Post subject: |
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if Fe++ is good with black walnuts it probably means that the ink is a ferrous tannate organics mix, much like oak gall inks
classic, but with walnuts as available
oak galls come in several sorts, some have more tannins than others, you might give them a go if you have any available
from tanning skins they have the highest tannin levels just after the wasp bites out of the gall
i gave sally my books on natural dyestuffs, she was quite an expert before she got them, might be worth a chat with her re practical stuff such as, boil it at the end of the garden as it stinks or nice colour but permanent on skin, nasty mordant mix etc
indigo is the only natural dye i have played with properly, well matured "strong"urine is the base for the lake
the artificial version(different chemistry) uses bisulphite and sulphuric in the lake iirc
both need good ventilation, a stiff breeze away from people is popular
iirc, woad is similar to natural indigo for dye lake
alum is useful for preparing the fibres, it does increase uptake and permanence |
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Jam Lady
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: New Jersey, USA
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46217 Location: yes
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gz
Joined: 23 Jan 2009 Posts: 8924 Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46217 Location: yes
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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Jam Lady
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15972
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