Oats and Beans and Barley Grow

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Oats and Beans and Barley Grow

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Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 19 5:08 pm Post subject: Oats and Beans and Barley Grow

I'm working on an entry about oats / oatmeal for my website. There's a children's folk song: oats and beans and barley grow. Alternate: oats, peas, beans, and barley grow.

Googling seems to just get me lyrics, music (a tune called Baltimore), renditions with children or folk singers. No background.

Anyone have any background to share - origin, history, age, anything?

There's much more about "wild oats" BTW

TIA

jam lady

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 19 7:39 pm Post subject:
And little lambs eat ivy? Don't know much more than what I found on wikipedia, including some history and this: https://www.child-games.net/24/oats-and-beans-and-barley/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 19 7:50 pm Post subject:

that seems vaguely familiar, oats , beans ,barley ( no peas as i recall )

i had probably met it in the 1960's from a primary school song book that was maybe printed in the late 30's early 40's.

pastiche or version of an old song ? i have no idea.

there was a late victorian "folk revival " in the uk which involved both collecting old ones and both adapting those to be polite and creating new ones in the genre.

exhibit one

upland view

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 19 7:52 pm Post subject:

I forgot about that one, Slim! Thanks for reminding me that

Oh, mairzy doats and dozy doats and little lambsy divey
A kiddle divey, too. Wouldn't you?
If the words sound queer and funny to your ear,
A little bit jumbled and jivey.
Say, "Mares eat oats and does eat oats
and little lambs eat ivy."
Oh, mairzy doats and dozy doats and little lambsy divey
A kiddle divey, too. Wouldn't you?

As far as wild oats, the most historical tidbit I could find states that the saying is first recorded in English in 1542, in a tract by the Norfolk Protestant clergyman Thomas Becon. A related phrase appears in the works of the Roman author Plautus.

But I could not find anything about Plautus, other than that he was a comedian.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 19 9:25 pm Post subject:
mersey docks and harbour board and little lambs eat ivy was a recurring addition to their signs

gregotyn

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2201
Location: Llanfyllin area

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 19 10:50 am Post subject:
My grandmother and mother used to sing the "mares eat oats and does eat oats" song in the 1940's, as an incentive to get me to sleep as a child-didn't work-I used to sing with them.

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 19 6:20 am Post subject:
You could try contacting Cecil Sharpe House. https://www.cecilsharphouse.org. I understand that they have a library and archives of old English folk songs, and folk song history. maybe worth a message? sg

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15986

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 19 9:34 am Post subject:
I have never come across that one Jam Lady. We used to do a lot of folk singing at junior school, but that one never came up, and I have come across a lot since, but again, not that one. I learnt Mairze dotes and dozy dotes as a child. Not sure when it was written, but may have been a wartime nonsense song.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 19 3:15 pm Post subject:
We used to sing the oats and beans and barley one at primary school in Oxfordshire. It had actions. I wonder if the lyrics came from early crop rotation stuff.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15986

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 19 7:30 am Post subject:
Could well have don Sean. A lot of traditional songs have a theme which follows the growing or making of something.

sgt.colon

Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 19 7:45 am Post subject:
We did one at school that was "oats and wheat and barley grow" but I can't remember any more than that.

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