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alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 05 8:02 pm Post subject:
No pud offered in our house if you don't eat yoour dinner.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 05 8:11 pm Post subject:

alison wrote:

I think the sugar in the bread machine recipe is food for the yeast.

So the bread machine book says, but the flour people said there was enough sugar in the flour, and I've never had a problem with the bread (except when I forgot to put the paddle in properly!

) Apparently they're manufactured for the americans who like cakey bread!

Tristan

Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
Location: North Gloucestershire

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 05 9:22 pm Post subject:
Interesting point, I was always taught that sugar was only required for activating dried yeast, but the fast acting type sold for breadmakers shouldn't need it. You could always use milk in a recipe to provide lactose rather than sucrose, I'll experiment at the weekend

Mrs Fiddlesticks

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 10460

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 05 11:38 am Post subject:
doesn't vitamin C do something to the yeast as well? We use to sell ascorbic acid powder ( same thing) in Boots to home breadmakers years ago!

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 05 12:09 pm Post subject:
Can I aks why a couple of teaspoons of sugar in a bread recipe is such a problem on the grand scale of things

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 05 9:54 pm Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

Can I aks why a couple of teaspoons of sugar in a bread recipe is such a problem on the grand scale of things

Oh - it's not (sorry if anyone thought I was getting at them!) It's just that in my taste (which is probably warped anyway!) its detrimental to the bread, and it was an example of unecessary added sugar that I was conned into thinking that I needed. It's mostly because I actually dislike oversweet things that I'm trying to reduce them. Nigella's cake was horrible because it was so oversweetened it masked any flavour it might have had and spoilt it worse than too much salt would. I reckon with half the sugar it would have been really nice.

I expect their are health benefits, too, but that wasn't what I was bothered about. Apologies for ranting at you all!

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 05 10:00 pm Post subject:
could I aksed which of nigellas cakes you thought had too much sugar as I have made quite a few so I would be intrigued to know which one

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 05 4:27 pm Post subject:
Blimey, I didn't realise people put sugar into home-made bread! It always seems to rise for me with no sugar at all. (Not that I can be holier than thou, as someone who likes Nato-standard char; two spoonfuls in a mug of brick-red tea)

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 05 4:31 pm Post subject:

Gervase wrote:

as someone who likes Nato-standard char; two spoonfuls in a mug of brick-red tea)

Yuk to suger in tea.

I'll do that to coffee, I tried to be virtuous and persisted in no suger in coffee for months to see if I could acquire the taste. But it hnever happened.

jema

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 05 9:46 pm Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

could I aksed which of nigellas cakes you thought had too much sugar as I have made quite a few so I would be intrigued to know which one

chilli, chocolate and cinnamon pudding, before anyone asks, I don't know whether the chilli was nice in it. All I could taste was sugar. Interesting technique though - you make a batter, sprinlkle sugar on it, and then pour boiling water on the top, and bake (never done that before) I'll try again with less sugar on the top, and see how it goes. I know I don't have a sweet tooth, but this was stick to your teeth job. maybe it's just me - it wouldn't be the first time!

Rï¿½isï¿½n

Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 578

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 05 8:38 am Post subject:

I come from a household where we used to put sugar in everything, albeit in moderation; the boyf comes from one that has a horror of sugar and wouldn't even have it in the house. (Holidays were hard, for me

) I think something in between is right. After all, it is just another foodstuff, not grains of evil from the devil. (Depending on your taste!)

The bread recipe I use, which is always yummy to me, has just one teaspoon for every two pound loaves, which I don't think is excessive. I'd use more in a cup of tea to be honest. As far as cake making goes, I don't think I would reduce the sugar content unless I was planning on eating cakes every day. As long as you keep them to a special occasion then you're not taking in too much.

I have another scrummy oat biscuit recipe! Will post once I find out which forum to post it in

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 05 8:46 am Post subject:

Rï¿½isï¿½n wrote:

I have another scrummy oat biscuit recipe! Will post once I find out which forum to post it in

That should go here

https://forum.downsizer.net/viewforum.php?f=1

which hopefully will be the link to the recipes, preserving and homebrewing forum

more recipes are always welcome

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 05 9:59 am Post subject:

alison wrote:

I think the sugar in the bread machine recipe is food for the yeast.

Exactly, so you may find the bread doesn't rise. In addition, the yeast should use up the sugar, so you won't actually be eating sugar. Having said that, I've seen lots of postings were people have reduced both salt and sugar by 1/3 to 1/2 without problems. It does seem to depend on the brand of breadmaker, so I guess it's just a matter of trial and error. Also, it's perfectly possible to use fresh milk rather than powdered milk and water.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 05 10:06 am Post subject:

Also depends on the flour and the yeast you use. I find that for most white flours, a dried yeast wants a bit of sugar. When you use a malted grain flour, the yeast will often find enough sugar without having any added. Of course if it's a bread machine it's often worth adding a little sugar because you don't have the option of leaving it to rise a bit longer if it doesn't look ready to go in yet; the sugar is an insurance policy.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 05 10:38 am Post subject:

Fiddlesticks Julie wrote:

There used to be a apple and pear spread you could buy in wholefood shops that I seemed to remember you could use instead of sugar in recipes.

I've seen that one too, but for the life of me can't remember the name. For anyone wanting a low sugar jam, look out for a compote rather than a preserve or jam - Bonne Maman do at least two, a rhubarb and an apricot. It's very runny - it can actually be poured onto the bread - but it is absolutely gorgeous and has only 10% sugar, unlike the usual 35% you get even in low-sugar jams (which often have yucky artificial sweeteners in anyway)

bagpuss wrote:

Can I aks why a couple of teaspoons of sugar in a bread recipe is such a problem on the grand scale of things

Well, I think that's the point, isn't it? On its own, it would be fine, but it's not on its own, and worse still, most of the sugar we ingest is hidden. If you eat a processed cereal in the morning, you'll probably be taking in about 2 teaspoons of sugar per bowl (without adding any yourself!) then if you have 2 teaspoons in the bread (obviously you won't be eating an entire loaf), and then add baked beans (another 2 teaspoons), your apparently healthy breakfast and lunch has probably landed you 4.5 tsps of sugar. Considering the healthy amount of sugar for an adult is 10 tsp/day for a woman and 14 for a man, that's racking it up pretty quickly. Add a single can of Coke (7 tsps!!), and you've just gone over your daily allowance before you've even had dinner, or a biscuit with your tea.

It's even worse for children's food - most foods aimed at children, even if apparently healthy (eg yogurts) are horrendously high in sugar. The sugar is often disguised as glucose, lactose, fructose, maltose, invert sugar, corn syrup etc. and even though some of these are marginally better than others, they are still all sugar. The Food Agency reckons sugar for children in particular is addictive, and it takes at least a month for the tastebuds to get used to lower salt and sugar. We are genetically programmed to prefer sweet things, because they're generally safe to eat, so even babies will smile if given honey, but make a face if given lemon, thus children will always go for the sweetest thing available. That can of Coke, BTW, will send a young child over their RDA on its own, and yet people think nothing of giving them glass after glass of fizzy drink.

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