Magpies on my sheep.....

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Magpies on my sheep.....
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 10:30 am Post subject:

nickhowe wrote:

moonwind wrote:

I am sure Larsens would be outlawed if there was a need to do so.

I can't comment on the traps, as I don't know what they are like, but the above statement is not true.

It depends on how you look at it. I would have thought Labour would have tried to ban the traps when they had a larger majority if they thought it was necessary.

moonwind

Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 10:47 am Post subject:

Not worth getting heated over, because you will never change peoples views that have them set one way or another.

Each to their own so to speak, if the magpie population gets too big round here then they get reduced, it allows the songbirds a chance to rear their young for one and helps prevent a nasty little thing called New forest eye in the livestock which I am sure is spread by them pecking around the eyes of sheep.

Of course this fact doesn't fit in with some views of magpies actually being useful, but some of those who suggest a use wouldn't have livestock in the fields anyway

I agree that some people think breaking the law in protest is acceptable, the same as I would have the urge to break the law if I saw someone trespassing or damaging our property, on the grounds that a bad law is one that is unable to be policed.

Vermin mean different things to different people I suppose.

pssst! I think thou may be right ... duck ...incoming?

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 10:54 am Post subject:

But isn't that about what's popular, and therefore widely known? Foxhunting has been banned because its high profile, and politicians are inherently self-serving - ie they do what's popular. I never even heard of the wotsit trap until a few minutes ago. Nick's right - society sets the standards of what is currently acceptable, and then government change or enforce the law to reflect that (eventually). Which is how it should go, as the politicians are there to serve society and its values, not impose them. This is an academic point - I'm not commenting on the humanity of the trap, as I haven't a clue what it does.

Wouldn't the sheep be bothered if the magpies were hurting them? Although, having said that, they aren't known for their brains, are they? Surely they're aren't that stupid? Are they?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 11:04 am Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

But isn't that about what's popular, and therefore widely known?

Popular by those in power is the best way of looking at it which may, and often is, different to what's been concluded by research or what the majority of the public want.

AFAIK Larson traps have two compartments. In one sits a live magpie and the other is empty. The live magpie will attract another that will become trapped and is then dispatched by someone - or released if it's a different bird or animal. It may not be ideal but if they are banned then it would seem reasonable to me to ban all caged birds , so that would be pigeons, canaries, chickens etc.

Personally I'd watch the sheep and if there was any evidence of harm I'd trap the magpies. Hopefully the sheep will be fine.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 11:30 am Post subject:

moonwind wrote:

Magpies are a ruddy nuiscance.

They seem to sit on sheep at certina times of year (maybe their feet are cold!! haha).

More seriously is the point that birds that do tend to livestock hop are dangerous because they can spread diseases around from animal to animal from farm to farm.

You will notice how they hop from the animals back to its head and then start pecking around the eye area.

Apart from being a really good shot there is little you can do apart from clap your hands so the evil things clear off, and of course use the Larsen traps to keep numbers acceptable.

Might have a job catching your call bird this time of year mind, unless you know someone who keeps some for the purpose.

Keeping some for the purpose? Would you care to explain?

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 11:34 am Post subject:

moonwind wrote:

Songbirds? Hmm....

Two small points. 1) Why is the life of a songbird more important than that of a magpie? 2) If you are really concerned about songbirds, it might be an idea to catch any domestic cats that you come across and destroy them instead.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 11:49 am Post subject:

Silas wrote:

1) Personally I think magpies survive better as they are more adapt at scavenging off the waste humans leave; either rubbish, road kill etc. Round where I live there are huge numbers of magpies that I just don't think would be sustainable if humans were not around.

2) I certainly agree that cat numbers should be reduced, not by culling but perhaps by educating people. In my garden though I've not seen cats taking birds but have seen grey squirrels and foxes attack nest boxes and seen magpies attack nesting blackbirds.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46233
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 06 6:54 pm Post subject:
ask the sheep

Anna-marie

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 980
Location: West Wales

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 06 3:07 pm Post subject:

Pete wrote:

That is right dont worry about it they are not doing them any harm

They are likely to do their most harm at lambing time, as they have a tendency to attack newborn lambs and peck out their eyes and tongues. The lamb, of course, then has to be destroyed.

I am not aware that they carry the same risk to adult sheep, but it would be wise to check on them regularly to make sure that they have not been damaged by sharp beaks.

Anna-marie

Lionheart

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 427
Location: Cheshire

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 06 10:10 am Post subject:
Thank you for all of your responses (however controversial!!). I'll keep an eye on them but for now it doesn't look like any damage is being done. (Oh yes, and as for being a good enough shot to take them out, I used to shoot for GB a few moons ago and in theory should be able to take their nads off.....lolololol . No word of a lie guv!)

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 06 6:00 pm Post subject:
May I at this stage point out that its rather hard to dismantle a larson trap with a broken neck !

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 06 6:11 pm Post subject:
It would be a very foolish person who tried to use any physical violence in this situation. I have continued to disassemble a trap whilst the landowner approached me and, whilst he was quite obviously annoyed, he had the sense to restrain himself from being in any way physical. I was happy to leave him my personal details, but, evidently, he chose not to persue the matter - very wise.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 06 6:20 pm Post subject:
Do you think that perhaps the landowner could see that there was just the slightest bit of something wrong with you ? I wouldn't use that as a talisman too often if I were you ! It might not always work . Its not everyone that is put off by a little confrontation and that goes for people who are on your side of the fence and mine. Bully boy tactics don't always work in other words !

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 06 7:28 pm Post subject:

Well, that is pretty rich from someone who suggest, however veiled in smileys, that people like me should have their necks broken!

I do not use bully boy tactics, I just dismantle the contraption, and when asked 'what the hell I think I am doing' I just explain that I am dismantling the trap and releasing the captive bird. Simple. I am quite prepared to leave my details if they wish to pursue the matter - but they never do.

I am not a violent person, but I am quite capable of looking after myself if I had to.

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 06 11:14 pm Post subject:

Folks,

Downsizer cannot condone illegal activity of any kind, whether that comprises breaking the law or the inferrence that retribution against those who do so should also be outside of the legal framework.

However, As often in these cases people feel they have a strong moral imperative towards peaceful civil disobedience, something which has a long and proud history in this country (and others) for demonstrating the will of people to effect change.

We would ask all those involved in this discussion to reflect on this and treat all the posters involved with respect.

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