Magpies on my sheep.....

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Magpies on my sheep.....
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hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 1:17 pm Post subject:

I have no experience with pest control or with these traps in particular. But I have seen magpies at work. My kitchen is upstairs and my window overlooks woodland by a river. I have a brilliant view of the higher tree branches and the life there and I watched a pair of thrushes nest and raise their brood, as well as being able to see various tits nesting.

The magpies took out all the young thrushes and went on to shred all the nests of the tits. They also killed at least two adult blue tits who were attempting to fight them off. I suspect they killed others. They then moved on, doing the same on the next patch along - I went out and tracked them with binoculars.

This wasn't just a predator taking food, it was total desctruction of the area. The whole of the year's breeding was wiped out in that small area in around 20 minutes. I'm not sentimental about this. Just practical in that I witnessed the song bird population being hammered so hard I think it would have had serious impact on the population.

Having seen them at work, I would say that in my eyes they are a pest and need to be controlled. Magpies seem to be very prevalent now - I would suspect that the numbers are a result of them thriving due to some inbalance somwhere along the line.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:25 pm Post subject:
And what do you think about domestic cats?

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:27 pm Post subject:

Silas wrote:

And what do you think about domestic cats?

If it was legal, I'd set my hounds on 'em

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:39 pm Post subject:
God, now the cat lovers are gonna attack the thread. Anyone remember the old nursery rhyme? Swallowed a fly, then a spider, then something what ate spiders and such? Any cat owners here got a dog hunting tiger they'd like to threaten anyone with?

quixote

Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 198

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:40 pm Post subject:

Silas wrote:

And what do you think about domestic cats?

A tad confused as to how domestic cats relate to the original point of this thread? Can you expand on your reasons for asking this question?

I think the point being made relating to magpies is on their negative impact on local songbird populations in a rural/semi-rural environment (and I don't imagine many Larson traps surviving long in built-up areas, so I'll consider corvid control in these cases to be a seperate matter)

Can we also introduce the effects of feral cat populations into the equation? Having said that, being a frequenter of many farms with feral populations, I have yet to see the songbird population decrease in these areas. An increase in corvid numbers (especially magpies) is directly related to increased predation on local songbird populations, including destruction of nests. I have yet to see a domestic cat raiding nests, incidentally.

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:42 pm Post subject:

nickhowe wrote:

God, now the cat lovers are gonna attack the thread.

Anyone remember the old nursery rhyme? Swallowed a fly, then a spider, then something what ate spiders and such?

Any cat owners here got a dog hunting tiger they'd like to threaten anyone with?

Said tongue in cheek

Seriously, I do think cats can be a menace with wildlife. And I don't approve of that aspect.

But I would never, ever go after a cat with hounds or by any other means. It was just that the previous post was too much to resist

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:43 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

I totaly agree with peoples rights to resort to civil disobedience .

Criminal damage is an arrestable offence however and as such the land owner is permitted to use reasonable force to arrest the offender.
In reality however, how many landowners would be mentaly or physicaly prepared to meet with such a confrontation

This is where the morality of civil disobedience gets all complicated.

I think we'll all probably look back on some of the great civil disobedience protests with admiration; whether its the suffragettes, the poll tax, whatever. Its a way of affecting political change at great personal cost.

But when the target of such civil disobedience is an individual rather than the state, someone who is as vulnerable if not more so than the person doing the civil disobedience, then there isn't really any possibility of affecting political change.

So it seems natural that people on both sides would get rather heated, if you're setting a trap like this legally then you don't see anyone interfering with it as an agent of political change, you see them as a criminal. And of course if you feel strongly enough about trapping in this way such that you'll take the law into your own hands then you see such criminality as worthwhile.

I would say that unless you're at one pole or the other you'll see grey areas here, so the most important questions to ask are about whether such traps are cruel, how cruel they are in that instance, how well they work, why they're seen as necessary and whether or not there are better alternatives. Without answering such questions its impossible to come to any moral conclusions, and neither the hunter nor the protestor are vindicated.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:44 pm Post subject:

Silas wrote:

And what do you think about domestic cats?

Sweet, fluffy, playful little ecological vandals. I quite like cats, cat owners (especially in residential areas plagued with thousands of the things) need to wake up and learn some responsibility, I think.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:44 pm Post subject:

hedgewitch wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

Said tongue in cheek

I know, I'm just trying to keep the mood light.

Silas

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:46 pm Post subject:

Quixote wrote:

Silas wrote:

And what do you think about domestic cats?

A tad confused as to how domestic cats relate to the original point of this thread? Can you expand on your reasons for asking this question?

Err...No

I don't think that I will bother - if you can't see the relevance of the question there is hardly any point.

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:46 pm Post subject:

nickhowe wrote:

I know, I'm just trying to keep the mood light.

After you with the lithium then.

quixote

Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 198

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:47 pm Post subject:

hedgewitch wrote:

Seriously, I do think cats can be a menace with wildlife.

I agree, but I feel Silas was trying to steer us along the lines of 'domestic-cats-are-killing-all-our-songbirds-so-please-leave-the-magpies-alone-because-they're-blameless'

Whether this is a genuinely-held belief on his part, I could'nt say

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:48 pm Post subject:

nickhowe wrote:

hedgewitch wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

Said tongue in cheek

I know, I'm just trying to keep the mood light.

I know you know... just wanted to make sure everyone else who might read this would know too

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45670
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:48 pm Post subject:

hedgewitch wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

hedgewitch wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

Said tongue in cheek

I know, I'm just trying to keep the mood light.

I know you know... just wanted to make sure everyone else who might read this would know too

I thought you were going to get some work done?

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 06 2:49 pm Post subject:

hedgewitch wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

hedgewitch wrote:

Said tongue in cheek

I know, I'm just trying to keep the mood light.

I know you know... just wanted to make sure everyone else who might read this would know too

I think he knew you knew he knew, although I don't know.

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