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Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 11:45 am Post subject: Dishwashers...
Now, I don't have much of an argument on this because I make a huge mess when cooking and rarely tidy up. But the missus is putting her foor down and demands a dishwasher in the new kitchen, I'm a bit down on them from an environmental point of view but is it feasible that an 'a' rated dishwasher, properly loaded could be more efficient than heating water for three or four bowl fulls?

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 11:58 am Post subject:
Having just a couple of weeks ago researched (some) model details, I can tell you that the cheap full-size "AAA" rated dishwasher chosen uses just 19 litres and a whisker over 1kwh (1 "unit" of electricity) on its 50C wash. IMHO thats not bad at all. However, the detergent residues might be of more concern...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 11:59 am Post subject:
This discussion has been had a few times at AECB teh consensus was that it's a good thing as long as you're not using loads of water to rinse the dishes first, it's an efficient machine, it's fully loaded Of course if you have solar/ground source water heating and can supply the dishwasher with warm water then it becomes even more efficient...

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:15 pm Post subject:
Are dishwashers plumbed into the hot and cold water like a washing machine?

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:18 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Are dishwashers plumbed into the hot and cold water like a washing machine?

Very very rarely now that the water consuption and operating temp are so low. (Almost?) All are cold feed only nowadays.
(Edit: like most washing machines....)

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:21 pm Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

Are dishwashers plumbed into the hot and cold water like a washing machine?

They mostly if not ally, have a single feed, you can generally choose to plumb it to hot or cold. If you plumb to hot the cycle is quicker, but the results are not as good.
As you will always be rinsing with hot, you will be using more hot water, but then the heat source will probably be cheaper.

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:21 pm Post subject:

I understood, as T says, that properly used they're more energy efficient than washing by hand - and somewhere I got the impression they can be more hygienic...

dougal wrote:

However, the detergent residues might be of more concern...

We've started using Ecover tablets, assume they are a bit better than Tesco's own etc, and they are good, in fact I only use half a one. Much better than their washing up liquid or clothes washing stuff. Dunno whether the salt or rinse aid are a problem though

bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:25 pm Post subject:
I got rid of mine because of the rinsing plates issue - we were just not using enough crockery not to rinse the plates off first and when we tried not rinsing the dishwasher started to smell really bad. From what I understand if you rinse the plates under a running tap then you use a huge amount of water

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:25 pm Post subject:
What about the environmental cost of all the extra crockery you have to buy because most of it is in the dishwasher at any given time, waiting for a full load?

Mat S

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 282
Location: Leicester

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:28 pm Post subject:
A single dishwasher is a daft idea because you spend vast amounts of time loading and unloading it. What you need it two dishwashers (undownsizerish I know) and you simply put dirty dishes in one, run it, use clean dishes from it and dump them in the dirty one. Run that when full and repeat. No need for shelves in the kitchen to keep plates and pots and stuff on either. Genius! Mat

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:30 pm Post subject:

Mat S wrote:

A single dishwasher is a daft idea because you spend vast amounts of time loading and unloading it. What you need it two dishwashers (undownsizerish I know) and you simply put dirty dishes in one, run it, use clean dishes from it and dump them in the dirty one. Run that when full and repeat. No need for shelves in the kitchen to keep plates and pots and stuff on either. Genius!

Mat

Sounds wildly unlikely to work unless you use exactly the same stuff each and everyday!

Mat S

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 282
Location: Leicester

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:34 pm Post subject:
It's not an entirely serious suggestion!

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:46 pm Post subject:
But one I did see implemented in the "Grand Designs" house I visited last London Open House, (the one with curved glass patio doors, built around a tree with a preservation order, all entry/exit through the tiny coach house where the folk were living during the build.) Two fancy italian "drawer-type" dishwashers, for just that very reason...

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:56 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

But one I did see implemented in the "Grand Designs" house I visited last London Open House, (the one with curved glass patio doors, built around a tree with a preservation order, all entry/exit through the tiny coach house where the folk were living during the build.)
Two fancy italian "drawer-type" dishwashers, for just that very reason...

I am sorry to say I can think of one or two "ready meal" households, where this arrangement might work well

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 05 12:58 pm Post subject:

bernie wrote:

I got rid of mine because of the rinsing plates issue - we were just not using enough crockery not to rinse the plates off first and when we tried not rinsing the dishwasher started to smell really bad.

You can buy smaller models (8 places 45cm). We find that we need to put them on about once every two days, and if you rinse in the washing up water which you still need to use (post and pans, etc.), there's not too much of a problem,

Peter.

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