Living on land with planning permission.

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Living on land with planning permission.
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onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 1:01 pm Post subject: Living on land with planning permission.

Can you just move on ?
How long can you get away with it ?

Just weighing up my options at the moment.
One of them being purchasing plot with full planning permission, and living onsite.
The capital in my house would cover cost of land and setting up mobile unit, but not having or wanting a mortgage (been there, done it) funding of new build would be as and when and a looooooooooong term project.
I understand there is a five year expiry on PP. If I got footings in within 5 years does that help with retaining permission ?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 1:23 pm Post subject:

There's nothing wrong with it unless/until you are challenged by the local authority, but it can make it very difficult if you or anyone else want to apply for planning in the future. It all depends on the situation though and on the support of the locals.

Is there conditions on the planning (such as an ag-tie)? You generally are given 3 years to start so if it is the same then getting the footings in within three years would help with the planning side, but it does all depend upon the individual permission, as there may be conditions on the time of completion too.

Last edited by Rob R on Sun Jan 08, 12 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 1:33 pm Post subject:
AFAIAA the planning permission expires unless the development is started within 5 years of being granted. I have seen suggested that laying footings is sufficient to start, but then, why not making the excavation for the footings? Or making the first dig with a spade? I believe that you have to notify the LA as well of commencement, that would show a start time. sg

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 2:11 pm Post subject:

So if I got groundworks done in the 3 or 5 year period - that's the easy part for me - would I then have another 3 or 5 years to say get the structure built ?

TBH the house bit doesn't bother me as long as I've got off road parking, my builders yard, a workshop, a garage/outbuilding and have some garden left then I'm happy. Finding that sort of accomadation in these parts on my budget isn't easy hence exploring this option and looking to stretch living on site as long as possible or even indefinately.

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 2:26 pm Post subject:
What we have been told and have had no one tell us different (authority giving permission gave the advice) was that once the project had been started if it took us 50 years or more to finish that's entirely up to us. It could be different in your area, but we are in a national park who are normally pretty picky

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 2:33 pm Post subject:

T.G wrote:

Thank-you.
That's what I hoped was the case.

It's took me 15 years to do nothing on this house so that sounds good.

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 3:19 pm Post subject:

I do ground works for people,and as long as you've opened a trench and called the building inspector out (and payed his fees) to inspect it, you've started the build, I've got one to do next week, he's only got 3 weeks planning left before it runs out, he's got no intention of going any further with the built because he hasn't got the money. Once you've started there's no time limit. Around this area we've got private firm that will do the inspections, a lot more helpful and cheaper than the local council, plus they give you a completion certificate at the end of the build(like an architect's certificate)

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 3:54 pm Post subject:

T.G wrote:

What we have been told and have had no one tell us different (authority giving permission gave the advice) was that once the project had been started if it took us 50 years or more to finish that's entirely up to us.

It could be different in your area, but we are in a national park who are normally pretty picky

That's what I've heard, from brother, nice to know he didn't just completely make it up.

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 4:55 pm Post subject:

As I said I'm only exploring the options at the moment so it's all hyperthetical -

Let's say foundations are in and slabs poured, I'm living in a 'temporary' structure and all outbuildings comply with planning or are 'temporary' structures.
Could I use the floor area of house (now concreted) for other purposes - eg parking or 'temporary' structures ? Or would that be taking the mick and upsett the authorities ?
Or in other words - would you have to show some intention of carrying on with build or can you just blatently not bother and stick a mobile unit onto the house slab ?

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 5:38 pm Post subject:
If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 5:45 pm Post subject:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:09 pm Post subject:

onemanband wrote:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax

I've just built my own house and i lived in a caravan on site, i had to pay the lower band council tax on the caravan and as soon as i plastered the walls inside the house the council wanted to charge me council tax on the house as well

mark

Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Leeds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:17 pm Post subject:

I would take legal advice on this. The law is complicated.

However it does seem that if you use land or property which has certain permissions for another use that constitutes a change of use and can invalidate the original planning permissions.

ie I use land approved for a home as a workshop - or I use land approved for a permanent dwelling as a caravan park.

Not only is the new use not legal - but it can invalidate the original permissions.

Eg if I have a chip shop and let it to someone who uses it as a general store - then take possession of it I may well have to reapply for the chip shop use - even though permissions have already been given because of different use in between.

I'm not expert and this area is governed by case law - and some cases imply opposite results so their is plenty of potential for long expensive legal battles! So take I would advice.

(I am a Landlord and not a lawyer!)

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:39 pm Post subject:

digit wrote:

onemanband wrote:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax

Just make sure the internal walls are finished well and go for an industrial look

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 7:19 pm Post subject:

Ok that sounds like;

If I don't put anything on area of house and my accomodation is temporary - that's ok.
Workshop is more for domestic use - motorbikes and such things - so that's ok
Builders yard would be bigger than what's presently in my garden now, but I won't be manufacturing or selling from there - just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials. Anyhow would be no different to self-build clutter. So guess that would be ok.

It also sounds like :

Not having enough funds to complete the build is ok.
But doing something which implies I have no intention of finishing build - such as change of use or preventing construction continuing (ie placing accomodation on house slab)- then that is not ok.

I guess having the funds to complete build or a proper programme of works would help if there was an issue with living on-site but there is no need for me to otherwise provide such information ?

It's not that I intend not to build. Just that if I go down this route I would only do it if I can be certain of not being evicted if house was not built in a certain timescale.

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