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Midland Spinner

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:21 pm Post subject: Paying for handmade

I found this and thought I'd share.

Small businesses have been getting a bit of a pasting recently.

For instance someone said "don't buy from people who don't take cards." - We don't take cards - we mostly sell in cash at events, there have been 1 or 2 people in the last 18 months who definitely didn't buy because they couldn't pay by card. The rest either paid cash, cheque, or offered a deposit and sent a cheque in the post. We've looked into the costs and have decided that on the basis that most people pay cash, the overheads from having a card machine would cost more than the extra sales. Yes we could charge a surcharge on the cost of the card transaction, but there are monthly overheads to service a card account as well, and they would be what eats up the profit on the sales - so effectively we would be making more stock just to cover the cost of selling it. Every so often we re-visit the idea, but so far it's still coming out in favour of not taking cards, but on the basis of the advice quoted above, we wouldn't sell anything because we don't count as a "proper business".

As it stands, our business is too small to benefit from any of the perks of being a business, but we still have all the overheads of running a business - accountants, paperwork, insurance etc. We don't yet make a living wage (I wish!!), but are living off savings while we grow the business to a stage where we can draw a sensible amount out of it. With the sort of advice given above, the 'help' the the gumment provide (like real time PAYE) and post rises, I sometimes wonder if it's worth battling on to the stage where we do make money.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:34 pm Post subject:
Start taking cards - there are now so many more payment options with no monthly fees, some even have no setup fees. The Worldpay one I use costs �60 one off fee & since I've had it I've got more sales & bigger purchases, even though hardly anyone asked if we took cards before. Before I used to get people saying they didn't have the cash & would come back, they rarely ever did.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:41 pm Post subject:
Why do people want to pay by card? Is it because they don't have the cash or because they want the protection that comes by paying by credit card? (If so, that only applies to purchases over �100 these days).

Midland Spinner

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:49 pm Post subject:

Find me a way to accept cards on a mobile terminal at events (which often have limited phone signal), for an affordable price and I'll consider it.

All the options I've seen need a monthly rental, a good phone signal, and, most critically - for you to take payments (or at least turn the machine on) every week or so (our events are spread out - most in the summer, few in the winter, so it wouldn't be used much in the winter months).

I've looked into it and there's no good option for us that I can find. I'm waiting for them to bring out an app for phones that makes them into a mobile terminal - last time I looked there was something, but it was only for customers of one particular bank.

In the mean time, we have only lost a couple of sales - probably less than �50 in 18 months - the majority of our transactions are less than �20 so the fees would eat into that a lot.

For what we are selling which (like the person in the link) are luxuries, if someone's spent up the cash they brought to spend, they aren't going to put it on a card, they are going to wait until the next time they see us at an event.

earthyvirgo

Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 7972
Location: creating prints in the loft, Gerlan

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:49 pm Post subject:

I don't take cards either Midland Spinner and have found the same as you, at 'Open Studios' people generally come armed with a cheque book, or, as you say, pay a deposit and then send a cheque.

Online, people use Paypal.
I can't recall one lost sale since I've been printmaking full time. I've had the occasional 'Do you take cards' but no grumbles that I don't.

What I would like to be able to offer is the Welsh Arts Council Collectorplan - interest free 12 month scheme but I'm pretty sure that's only for galleries.

EV

Midland Spinner

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:54 pm Post subject:

earthyvirgo wrote:

Yes, we take payapl too - and have the option of offering people to paypal us from their phone & we'll release the goods as soon as we get the paypal email on ours. It's not perfect, but it's the only solution we can think of which doesn't have the drawbacks I outlined above. A lot of the traders I know who do take cards either spend a whole event running up & down to the battlements trying to get a signal, or have to get the box out & do a Z reading every week between fairs or risk having the machine need a whole re-boot from the supplier at the start of the event because they hadn't realised that they needed to keep using it.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 4:56 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Why do people want to pay by card? Is it because they don't have the cash or because they want the protection that comes by paying by credit card? (If so, that only applies to purchases over �100 these days).

Because its not the 1970s. It means you can buy without planning and this is a good thing when you make impulse purchases.

Sally Too

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: N.Ireland

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:05 pm Post subject:

Midland Spinner wrote:

Yes, we take payapl too - and have the option of offering people to paypal us from their phone & we'll release the goods as soon as we get the paypal email on ours.

Wow! Good idea! I never would have thought of that!

I tried to buy a basket one time & didn't have the cash. It was a bit of a palava as I went out (3 miles) to local village to the cash machine & then back....

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:16 pm Post subject:
A lot of accounts don't have cheque books any more and I tend not to walk around with more than �20 cash, if that, after the family have robbed me. As Nick says, I'll use the card to buy things I really like on impulse. If I have to walk to the cash point I have time to think that �150 for a print is probably a luxury and the stairs need a carpet.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:20 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Because its not the 1970s. It means you can buy without planning and this is a good thing when you make impulse purchases.

Exactly. To add to EV's not losing payments because you don't take cards - how can you possibly know that? My impulse purchases have shot up since & it costs less than Paypal.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:27 pm Post subject:

Midland Spinner wrote:

Find me a way to accept cards on a mobile terminal at events (which often have limited phone signal), for an affordable price and I'll consider it.

What is affordable to you?

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:29 pm Post subject:
I would not want to carry cash (beyond food and beer money) or a cheque book at a show. If they didn't take cards I woudn't be buying.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:32 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Nick wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Because its not the 1970s. It means you can buy without planning and this is a good thing when you make impulse purchases.

Exactly. To add to EV's not losing payments because you don't take cards - how can you possibly know that? My impulse purchases have shot up since & it costs less than Paypal.

I think I'm just too considerate.

I'm very much a pay on credit card person, as I find it easier to manage and track compared to cash, but if I go to small traders, shops, markets etc I make sure I take cash.

earthyvirgo

Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 7972
Location: creating prints in the loft, Gerlan

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:33 pm Post subject:

Jamanda wrote:

I would not want to carry cash (beyond food and beer money) or a cheque book at a show. If they didn't take cards I woudn't be buying.

Interesting and useful info Jamanda. I guess I would be the same at a trade show.

Would that also apply if you were visiting an individual artist's studio or would it be more acceptable for an artist to be old-fashioned and not know what a credit card was?

earthyvirgo

Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 7972
Location: creating prints in the loft, Gerlan

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 13 5:36 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Nick wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

Because its not the 1970s. It means you can buy without planning and this is a good thing when you make impulse purchases.

Exactly. To add to EV's not losing payments because you don't take cards - how can you possibly know that? My impulse purchases have shot up since & it costs less than Paypal.

I think I'm just too considerate.

I'm very much a pay on credit card person, as I find it easier to manage and track compared to cash, but if I go to small traders, shops, markets etc I make sure I take cash.

On the whole, I think most people are like Treacodactyl.
They'd expect a gallery to take credit cards but not an individual artist.

EV

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