Wild honey bees.

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Wild honey bees.
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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 11:37 am Post subject: Wild honey bees.

I understand that some beekeepers dislike wild bees. I'm not sure why, I can see they might be a potential disease vector, but they cannot now be any serious competition.

The general word is that the overall honey bee population is pretty screwed, and the general way that a species makes it through a threat of extinction is through genetic diversity.

It seems obvious to me, from my position of ignorance, that we should be encouraging as many wild bee nests as we possibly can, possibly even to the extent of seeding them with "domestic" bees.

Is that just a really daft idea, and if so, why?

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 11:51 am Post subject:

My understanding is that there are no wild honey bees in the UK but I guess you mean those not in beekeepers hives. Those in holes in trees and elsewhere are "seeded" as you describe it from established apiaries.

I can understand the concern if there is a lot of disease in your area. However not all the news on bees is bad but it's easier to hear that over the good. There is a lot of progress being made in disease and mite control.

It has been a good summer for bees in this area so far and that can pull the figures around.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 11:56 am Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

I would expect most of those to have come from swarms, and I understand that swarming is something you don't want your colony to do.
What I meant by "seeding" was to take a queen and a few workers and introduce them to a suitable location.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 12:02 pm Post subject:
When I have enough bees, I won't worry about mine swarming as I want to populate this area. I haven't found a single bee in 400 acres. No one in the Society has put up any objection to this plan. I'm only one person though.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 12:08 pm Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

When I have enough bees, I won't worry about mine swarming as I want to populate this area.

I think I would take a similar position, but I think I would be inclined to split the colony myself, rather than let it swarm, then you control how many bees you would lose.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 14 12:29 pm Post subject:
Maybe but I want them to find their own place. One lot did swarm a couple of years ago. I don't think they survived as I have seen no sign of them. We are not the green desert that is sometimes used to describe farmland but I'm not hopeful either.

Green Rosie

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 10498
Location: Calvados, France

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 6:30 am Post subject:
We have a "wild" swarm in the tree at the bottom of our veg patch. I have no idea if it is truly wild or has come from a hive somewhere but I do know we have a very healthy bee population around here. I have seen 2 swarms leave the nest but plenty of bees remain to carry on pollinating my veggies! It has been there for several yeas now.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 6:39 am Post subject:
Not seen many honey bees here, but there's lots of bumble bees (this year and last). A bee hive is now at the top of my wish list...

Green Rosie

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 10498
Location: Calvados, France

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 6:43 am Post subject:
We have a really good range of a many bees types including wonderful Carpenter bees.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 7:27 am Post subject:
It's interesting isn't it. We also have a huge number of bees of all types except the honey bee. Although I am hoping to change that. (I've just been offered a swarm. I'll probably use it to strengthen one of the existing hives.)

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 7:58 am Post subject:
Do different bees pollinate different plants? I assume so, but are they so specific that having no honey bees is an issue, except for the honey thing?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 9:49 am Post subject:

Green Rosie wrote:

We have a "wild" swarm in the tree at the bottom of our veg patch. I have no idea if it is truly wild or has come from a hive somewhere...

As far as I am concerned, that is a distinction without a difference.

Quote:

I do know we have a very healthy bee population around here. I have seen 2 swarms leave the nest but plenty of bees remain to carry on pollinating my veggies!

I would expect that a nest in a restricted space would pump out swarms on a fairly regular basis.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 10:25 am Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Cathryn wrote:

When I have enough bees, I won't worry about mine swarming as I want to populate this area.

I think I would take a similar position, but I think I would be inclined to split the colony myself, rather than let it swarm, then you control how many bees you would lose.

Is there a reason perhaps that they need to make the "choice" themselves? To get a queen at the right point of maturity, or the right weather conditions, or...something?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 10:41 am Post subject:

Yes IMHO genetic diversity is very important.
As an example the national dairy herd of holsteins descended from too few bulls. Could that be one of the reasons for the huge increase in BTB & not the badgers?
Certain breeds of cattle hardly ever get reactors.
Man tends to select for certain traits, with livestock (which includes bees), that tends to be productivity & temperament.
"Wild bees" might be descended from swarms escaped from beekeepers hives but the fact they are unmanaged means natural selection.
If they are susceptible to certain diseases or pests they will succumb, if not they will survive. I know of bees almost completely resistant to varroa because one man with foresight left his bees completely untreated & only bred from the survivors.
Takes a lot of nerve & you need a lot of colonies to do it.

Swindon honeybee conservation group.
There are beekeepers in West Cornwall doing similar work.
Bee improvement in Cornwall.

But as well as genetic selection we have to look at management practices as well. Much of modern beekeeping is very unnatural & much of the environment the bees have to live in also.
It's now proven that certain commonly used chemicals make Apis M more susceptible to Nosema. A disease bees have lived with for probably as long as we have kept them & usually never a problem. Now many beekeepers are reporting losses & very weakened colonies when they themselves are doing nothing different. So environmental.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 14 12:57 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

I would be inclined to split the colony myself, rather than let it swarm, then you control how many bees you would lose.

Is there a reason perhaps that they need to make the "choice" themselves? To get a queen at the right point of maturity, or the right weather conditions, or...something?

As I understand it, the bees choose to make a new queen, and when she emerges they go off in a swarm...
I think the new queen keeps the hive and the old one goes off swarming.
If the weather is not right then you can end up with two queens in a hive and things get a bit tense in there...

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