Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis

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Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis
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Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon May 23, 16 7:00 am Post subject: Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis

BBC 1, 20.30. Antibiotics crisis.

Quote:

Growing resistance to commonly prescribed antibiotics is one of the biggest public health threats of modern times, with the potential to cause 80,000 deaths in the UK over the next 20 years. Experts say the use of a range of NHS 'last-resort' antibiotics in farming is risking the lives of future patients. Tom Heap asks if the commercial pressure to produce cheap meat and poultry is fuelling the rise of superbugs and meets the patients for whom the drugs have already stopped working.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon May 23, 16 7:35 am Post subject:
I hear that next series they plan a study of ursine defecatory habits.

john of wessex

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2130

Posted: Mon May 23, 16 9:05 pm Post subject:
It seems to me that its a far bigger worry that Terrorism............

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 6:15 am Post subject:

john of wessex wrote:

It seems to me that its a far bigger worry that Terrorism............

In the sense of how many lives it could & is affecting I agree with you.
It seems to me the masses are so easily led or afraid to face the real problems. Easier to tar Muslims as the boogie man than change their lifestyle.
The husband of a friend had a routine operation on his ankle many years ago & contracted MRSA.
Constant medical interventions, then amputation of the foot, followed by amputation below the knee, & eventually the whole leg.
It killed him in the end (or he gave in) & IMHO a horrible way to spend your last few years of life.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 3:16 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

john of wessex wrote:

It seems to me that its a far bigger worry that Terrorism............

In the sense of how many lives it could & is affecting I agree with you.
It seems to me the masses are so easily led or afraid to face the real problems.

Not to mention how public health & environmental advice has heavily influenced perceptions. Chicken is booming, everyone thinks it is healthier and better for the planet so we're eating more. I thought about this as I passed our neighbours new broiler shed going up this afternoon.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 7:19 pm Post subject:

even the best broiler sheds make me very uneasy.

a well run broiler is very efficient in costs and health but welfare cannot be of a very high standard in such a system.
the bird density and huge numbers are very much at odds with a natural flock size and natural social structures of young and juvenile birds which i recon must stress even the strains of birds specifically bred for such a system.the only way i can imagine how the birds must feel is to remember the tube in rush hour, after a couple of months of that non stop while eating as much fortified wheetabix as i could i would be more than ready to put my own feet in the loops and head towards the electrified water.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 7:28 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

the only way i can imagine how the birds must feel is to remember the tube in rush hour, after a couple of months of that non stop while eating as much fortified wheetabix as i could i would be more than ready to put my own feet in the loops and head towards the electrified water.

So true

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 7:32 pm Post subject:

the problem of systematic antibiotic use in meat rearing is probably only solvable if consumers are prepared (or forced ) to pay for the extra costs of less intensively raised flesh.

forced might happen by legislation but it might happen that the antibiotics dont work against the critter germs as well as human ones(they are often the same)which would also force less intensive stock raising

big pharma is desperately hunting new antibiotics but finding and developing them faster than bugs evolve seems unlikely especially if the bugs have a lot of low level challenges such as adding antibiotics to feed which sooner rather than later one will shrug off and carry on.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue May 24, 16 7:39 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

the problem of systematic antibiotic use in meat rearing is probably only solvable if consumers are prepared (or forced ) to pay for the extra costs of less intensively raised flesh.

The way things are going people will be forced to pay more for all foods otherwise it won't be produced.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 11:25 am Post subject:
the secondary effect of antibiotic use in agriculture

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 12:24 pm Post subject:
One comparison I'd like to see is the numbers of drug resistant medical admissions per capita between the UK, the USA & somewhere like India where I imagine antibiotic use in livestock husbandry is minimal.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 1:22 pm Post subject:
The real danger is underdosing. India is a particular hotspot of antimicrobial resistance and it's wrong to assume that excessive use of antibiotics leads to resistance as it's more about appropriate use. A country that uses less is more likely to be breeding resistance than a country that uses appropriate amounts.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 1:57 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

The real danger is underdosing. India is a particular hotspot of antimicrobial resistance and it's wrong to assume that excessive use of antibiotics leads to resistance as it's more about appropriate use. A country that uses less is more likely to be breeding resistance than a country that uses appropriate amounts.

I've learnt something.
That makes sense. One of the reasons the doctor always tells you to finish the course.

The comparison would still be useful IMHO.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 2:28 pm Post subject:

if any bugs survive they are the resistant ones.if the first antibiotic does not full kill all of them it is very important to use another to get the ones resistant to the first.the take the full course is the first line of preventing resistant survivors and future problems.

underdosing is a recipe for resistance among any survivors (and applies to the bugs and their hosts if they survive) as is improper disposal of casualties that did not respond to treatment.

with continuous dosing at low levels there is a high probability that a resistant bug will emerge as the head of a line of resistant bugs.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Wed May 25, 16 3:19 pm Post subject:
a pretty good overview of the issues

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