Plastic crisp packets

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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 4:11 pm Post subject: Plastic crisp packets

I couldn't shame the kids into contacting Walkers to ask why their crisp packets aren't recyclable so I did it myself, my original question was why they need the foil layer and how they justify that against the environmental costs:

Pamela

That is exactly what it says on your website, which does not answer my questions:

1. Please advise what the benefits are of a foil layer within the packaging that a normal plastic wrapper would not provide.

2. According to your environment factsheet:

"In May 2017, we joined the Ellen Macarthur Foundation’s New Plastics Economy initiative as a Core Partner, where we are collaborating with a community of experts and innovators to create a more sustainable packaging ecosystem. One of the areas we are looking at is how we can make crisp packets 100% recyclable or recoverable.

We haven’t quite cracked this yet, but aren’t giving up. And we know to make progress, we’ll need to encourage everyone to recycle more and litter less."

Surely it's a straightforward process to go back to the all plastic packaging that all crisp manufacturers used to use in order to make it recyclable?

I'm not sure I understand the issue, please advise.

Tahir

On 16/01/2018 16:00, Talk To Us @ Consumer Services wrote:
- hide quoted text -
>
>
> Dear Mr Sharif
>
> Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding Walkers Crisps and the environment.
>
> Currently our Walkers Crisps packets are comprised of an inner foil layer, and an outer plastic layer (plus some sealant between). As you will appreciate, technically, virtually anything can be recycled, however, because separation of these materials is both costly and energy intensive it would make little sense to do so, environmentally or economically. And there is not the infrastructure for the ordinary consumer to actually recycle the material in question. So our current Walkers Crisps packets are not, in a meaningful sense, recyclable.
>
> For a fuller briefing on our Walkers agenda have a look at this webpage:
>
> https://www.pepsico.co.uk/purpose/environment/environment-factsheets/walkers-and-the-environment
>
> Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to contact us and I hope that I have been able to answer your enquiry.
>
> Regards
>
> Pamela Crump
> Consumer Relations

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 4:16 pm Post subject:
I'm guessing that the foil further reduces air exchange through the plastic and lengthens shelf life.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 4:28 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

I'm guessing that the foil further reduces air exchange through the plastic and lengthens shelf life.

I guessed that, but by how much and for what cost?

With the logistics systems within the food chain now I'm sure they don't need to have a 12 month shelf life.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 4:42 pm Post subject:
They're packed in nitrogen, hence the need for the metal foil layer to keep it in and avoid any oxygen getting to them. (I'm not saying it's necessary, just pointing out why they do it.)

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 4:49 pm Post subject:
Lets see if they come back with anything, can't imagine they will. Talking to the general public about modified atmosphere packaging is probably not something they're into, might blow our tiny little minds.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 5:15 pm Post subject:
Nitrogen! Isn't that what was used in the Oklahoma City bombing?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 18 7:40 pm Post subject:
It seems remarkably unlikely.

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 18 3:48 am Post subject:
You should fire the same email across to the chaps at Pringles - I saw something the other day about how their "cardboard" tubes are the hardest crisp packet to recycle out there. PS. Isn't the name Pamela Crump rather delightful? Reckon she's friends with Truly Scrumptious?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15996

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 18 8:22 am Post subject:

In the dim and distant past, when crisps were made by Smiths, only came in plain flavour and had a screw of salt in a blue paper, the packets were made of some sort of oiled paper. Not really recyclable either, but would probably break down faster than plastic and metal. The crisps did occasionally go soft if stored for too long, but as you say, with today's logistics, they should be sold fairly quickly, in the UK at least. Nitrogen may keep the crisps better, but shouldn't leak more than air as the molecules aren't that much different in size. Helium is the real problem as that has tiny molecules. We used to use that to test for leaks in electronic packaging.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 18 11:56 am Post subject:

You just need to threaten a public education about crisp packaging, and they will probably have an actuary that can tell almost exactly the number of Facebook shares that will make it more profitable to switch to recyclable packaging.

That being said, if your market for recyclables is anything like the current American one, almost no one will be incentivized to moving to produce more recyclable materials that aren't worth enough to cover the cost of transportation.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 18 1:41 pm Post subject:
They probably burn the same anyway and as China’s stopped taking plastic it seems that’s where a lot of it is going to end up.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46246
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 18 2:53 pm Post subject:
the paper bagged ones in the 60's were ok from high turnover outlets. biodegradable for those that avoid a formal waste stream and calorific if used as waste to energy in a waste stream. i vote waxed paper.

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 18 6:05 am Post subject:
We should vote to put the colours back to how they're supposed to be too, before Walkers ruined everything

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 18 11:51 am Post subject:
"Downsizer Crisps - the ones in the earth-friendly packaging" U.K. taters and oil, wildflower seeds coating the outside of the wax paper packaging. Sells itself, once you get a few celebrity endorsements. Then all the rest will switch their packaging over. Get on it Tahir et al.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46246
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 18 6:11 pm Post subject:
love the seeds idea for the ones that go feral.

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