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Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 19 12:53 pm Post subject:

Shan wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Shan wrote:

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.

Tata also bought an ailing company and now they're selling.

I was under the impression it was a buy into not a buy out,

But saying that,it could be the first step.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 19 3:47 pm Post subject:
Tata have been wanting to sell for a while. This might be the only option available to them.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 19 9:49 pm Post subject:
I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while, But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46238
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 19 11:43 pm Post subject:
no, buy in cheap, keep the good bits, sell or abandon the rest. classic vulture capitalism krupps are not fluffy

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 6:16 am Post subject:
Your right on the first bit,it was a cheap buy in,no money has changed hands,its a straight amalgamation of the 2 companies with a work force of around 48,000 workers,that only includes if I`m correct Tata UK and the works in Holland,and apparently Krupps also have a pension deficit. Be interesting how it pans out.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:30 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while,

But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.

Chaos economics is notorious for producing asset deals. This would not have been Tata's first, second or even third choice but it's likely to be their only choice. Jacob Rees' Mogg's father wrote a book on how creating political and economic instability produces massive opportunities for those with money to make more money.... funny how his son seems to be helping with exactly that.

Frankly, pointing to Tata and saying 'surely Brexit can't be that bad' is like hiding your head under the duvet and saying 'if I can't see the danger, it doesn't exist'.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 5:21 pm Post subject:

Shan wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I don`t believe I used them words,None of us really know the outcome,its just guess work on all parts,

Maybe the new company will scrap Port Talbot and sell the land for development,Maybe Thyssen Krupp will develop the Margam Coking coal mine,vast experience in Thyssen of mining development,and the fact Germany has stopped mining hard coal,

Like I said,It will be interesting how it pans out.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 5:29 pm Post subject:
So much of it isn’t guesswork tho. So much of it is written down and measurable.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 5:36 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Shan wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

No it really isn't guesswork. We KNOW what we currently have with the EU and we know we can not possibly get as good a deal as we currently have with them when we leave. We know this will impact our economy because we know that the EU is our biggest trading partner. In addition, any sane person will realise that we will not be able to replicate or get better deals with the rest of the world, than what the EU has negotiated on behalf of its members because we will not have the same level of political influence or negotiating power. An analogy for you: Imagine that the various branches of Tesco are EU members; their combined buying power gives them the ability to negotiate much better deals than the local corner shop is able to. The UK has been reduced to being the local corner shop. The ROW will not give the UK better deals than they do the EU because what you do not do, is piss off your biggest customer.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:00 pm Post subject:
That anology you mention ,is exactly what Thyssen Krupp/Tate are aiming at,on a larger scale to negotiate better priceings for raw materials.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:05 pm Post subject:
....and so was Tata but sometimes those efficiencies are not enough.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:08 pm Post subject:
I see that the lovely Mr Dyson is relocating his company to Singapore. P&O are reflagging to Cyprus. It's all going swimmingly.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:12 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

I see that the lovely Mr Dyson is relocating his company to Singapore.
P&O are reflagging to Cyprus.
It's all going swimmingly.

Absolutely....I wonder how long Brexiteers can carry on telling us that it will be "worth it"?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:39 pm Post subject:
Is he taking his near on 40,000 acres of England with him?

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 19 7:46 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Is he taking his near on 40,000 acres of England with him?

It's a good thing he can't. He is however signifying 3 things:

1.) He doesn't believe Britain is capable of performing on a global platform

2.) The importance of proximity to your main market. Singapore gives him good access to his growing Asian markets.

3.) Singapore has signed a free trade deal with the EU - he's future proofed his business against Brexit. The EU is clearly more important than he's willing to admit.

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