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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 20 1:28 pm Post subject:
We’ll be building a block of flats to that spec next year. We expect electricity bills to be less than £400 p.a. (No gas)

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 20 4:04 pm Post subject:

the current building regs are well messy compared to what can be done for a very similar budget

and there are so few building inspectors that even those are often not enforced

even after i had spent around £30k fixing a 1960's bungalow it was still prone to condensation(no longer my problem)

19th C houses were nice and dry so long as the coal fires were lit and pulling air in. when folk put in CH and double glazing etc they get pretty damp

ps most "rising damp" is penetrating damp from high surfaces outside, drainage etc

rising is as easy as drilling holes and using the right chemical DPC for the bricks, blocks or stone. penetrating needs the source finding and remedy, usually digging, ako drains, etc

lack of ventilation is a huge issue in homes and offices

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 20 11:31 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

We’ll be building a block of flats to that spec next year. We expect electricity bills to be less than £400 p.a. (No gas)

That`s not the one out in China your building with 400 floors?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 20 8:08 am Post subject:

As long as that is sorted, then this sort of house makes sense. How do you deal with damp and solid walls? Is there a damp proof membrane below the filling of the walls? I haven't really been able to see as they have been building new houses round here. I also wonder how they get rid of the wet caused by rain before the cladding goes on, as it must have taken weeks if not months on the ones they built in the village.

We had the extension at the back of our house cavity filled, and not that keen on it. Tendency to damp on the north wall, which has an overhang of the roof, so not even exposed to the weather, and if a squirrel gets into the loose infill, it can cause havoc, as has happened a couple of times. The rest of the house is concrete block that are a sort of square 8 shape, so not really possible to cavity fill those. It is pretty good though, as insulation in hot or cold weather is excellent.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 20 9:01 am Post subject:

There`s been a lot of problems around the country with various types of cavity fill causing damp,the type thats`s blown into an existing cavity.
The cellotex panels that clip onto the wall ties seems a better option when building the conventional cavity is taking place.
Housing association house`s in this area all seem to be timber framed with a brick outside skin.

I watched that video Slim posted,very interesting,especially the ground source heat system,bored down 170m,different to what has been floated around a few feet underground over the years.
It was a shame they did`nt show what type of construction the house`s were.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 20 10:05 am Post subject:
deep makes far more sense than wide especially for high density housing as a retrofit, im not sure about new builds all with such a thing but area heating using that tech scaled up might be practical iirc there are a few deep bore versions that get into warm rock in the uk and the icelanders have been warming from volcanoes for ages.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 20 7:33 pm Post subject:

We hate using rigid insulation in cavity walls unless it’s a system where you surface fix the insulation to the inner skin and then build up the outer skin. In a traditional cavity construction it’s too easy to leave gaps between boards. Any insulation works provided it’s installed as part of a system, it needs to be designed and then executed properly.

We very rarely see sites by other builders that we’d accept, nobody seems to care about cold bridging, proper weathering details or ventilation. You’d have thought builders and architects would know these things and that building regs would ensure a decent level of construction but no such luck.

If Gervase was still here I sure he’d tell us how successful traditional construction is in a lot if ways he’d be right. A mud brick house in a hot country is infinitely preferable to a concrete block one for insulation values and obviously has a lower carbon impact.

Lots of “right” ways but you need to understand the system.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 20 8:01 pm Post subject:

hot rocks although they don't burn holes in yer trews

if you dont know it is a very nice lido, if a bit busy in holiday season, and it was a bit chilly unless sun warmed, sorting warmer was a smart move

for a dip rather better than the bay and i like sea swimming but penzance bay has a few issues (water flow, boats and biohazards at times)

the kit and holes are capital intensive but long term the benefits will cover that

geo thermal and ground source can be useful

ground source from a river(or stream for small scale) has merit as well

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 7:55 am Post subject:

Understanding any system is important. Interesting that you have seen a number of potential and actual problems with cavity filling Tahir. The things I have been wondering about. Some traditional builds are very good, but they do require the system to be fully understood. In this area we have a number of flint buildings but I don't know if they have a damp proof course or whether the use of lime mortar means that any moisture evaporates out. I went to junior school in one of the flint buildings, but can't remember whether it was warmer or cooler than the new build with central heating, as without central heating was the norm for houses and other buildings at that time.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 9:57 am Post subject:

building inspection is often self certificated now as BC has had staff numbers cut to almost nothing

when i was doing SD's house i got one at the start to ok my plans for the bomb damage, drainage etc

by the time it was done the whole of the york city council area had one part time BI and basically said if you have done it, that's ok

i have always tried to do effective, long lasting work on buildings but going by how much cowboy and ignorance jobs i have remedied many do not

nothing would get me to buy a new build from most of the larger developers(the household names are top of that list)

a local story, there is a fairly large estate near hear, 1000 or so homes built over the last 25 years or so

about a year ago an unfortunate owner found a vauxhall corsa in their living room
they are not noted for robustness and no matter how drunk you are it should not be possible to drive one through a gable end

however for any story of modern build quality being poor i could probably match and better it with a georgian one, often involving internal supporting walls with no footings beyond a plank and made from rubbish and plaster cast into shuttering and roof designs that seem intended to leak

for period 1880 to 1939 seems pretty good although most need remedials for things that have been done as "improvements" or not done as maintenance

since folk have got double glazing and central heating rather than open fires ventilation is a common issue in even good ones of that period

one of the best modern ones i have worked on was a 1980's scandi house

concrete slab, timber frame, loads of insulation and an excellent heat exchange/ventilation system that could heat a 3 bed house with little more than a handful of twigs in the fire

it was about half the price of the current "english styles"to build at the time as well

good design is not only easy to live in but should last well with no more than basic maintenance

the surviving examples of "heritage build" are exactly that, for every nice tudor house that folk admire thousands fell down, caught fire or became uneconomic to mend

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 11:10 am Post subject:

New postPosted: Tue Sep 01, 20 9:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote

i have always tried to do effective, long lasting work on buildings but going by how much cowboy and ignorance jobs i have remedied many do not

Your spot on there,the building trade takes the biscuit for Cowboys,best let the Indians have a go.

Its surprising the bad building methods one finds in many houses of all ages,usually to cut costs,have you come across Rat Trap Bond in the area`s you have worked in the construction of skulleries and extensions?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 12:24 pm Post subject:
have you come across Rat Trap Bond no, most of the brick things i have worked on have been solid or twin with a cavity, sometimes with ties often without yorkshire stone cottages with 2 to 3 ft thick walls can be a bit interesting to make holes through for vents or pipes nice and solid though

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 5:58 pm Post subject:
Rat Trap Bond is brick on edge built in flemish bond style.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 20 6:39 pm Post subject:
i have seen pictures of , never met it in a building on edge single skin is fairly common in internal semi or non-supporting walls and as infill over doorways especially in houses from the late victorian/early edwardian period

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 20 7:33 am Post subject:

We found out quite a lot about building when we were renovating our first Victorian build house. The damp proof course was a single layer of slate, not 2 separated by a brick, there were holes in the firewall between ours and the next house, and the inner skin of the walls was mainly overburnt bricks and looked as if it had been put up in the afternoons after a visit to the pub at lunch time. I am not sure if the lack of strength was to do with the mortar or build, as when husband tried to face a particularly stubborn brick to fit a flush electric socket, a rather large section of wall came down and had to be rebuilt.

As for the 'courtyard development' next door; plastic chimneys to 'look good' ideal for nesting birds (good for pigeons, not so good for the roof), health and safety an optional extra, so wouldn't trust the build at all.

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