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Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 21 11:29 am Post subject:

Clearly our references points will be different, but it sounds a bargain to me.

When our solar went up a few years ago, 330 watt panels were considered surprisingly good. I think it's typical that panels continue to cost about the same, but the power rating continues to climb.

We had twenty put up in a bit more complicated setup, so it's hard to cost compare...

6.6 kw system, delivered on a 14'x30' shed, plus installation of a mini-split heat pump, ran us $25k.
Maybe $5k was heat pump and a replacement of the undersized preexisting service panel.

It's hard to detangle the cost of the panels, the shed, and final hookup, but it was supposed to only cost a few $k extra to get our panels delivered on a shed, vs installed on the house roof, so if installed on the house roof it would maybe have run us about $15k?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 21 1:42 pm Post subject:

Mine in 2019 (incl Battery):

System 3.35 Kwp PV Battery System with Standalone Facility.
Wagner 10 degree Ballasted mounting system with protection layer
10 No LG Neon 335w Monocrystalline PV modules
Solax 3000 DC/AC hybrid inverter/charge controller
6.3Kw Triple Power Battery
Connection of DC, SWA cable from roof to DC Isolators
2 No DC Isolators
Supply of Changeover switch
H07 Cable from changeover switch to Inverter
H07 cable from AC supply to Inverter
Cat 5 Cable between Inverter & External Export Monitoring Meter
2 No AC Isolator & Ofgem Approved Generation Meter
Wi-Fi set-up
Commissioning of Complete System
G83/2 Compliant Warning Labels
MCS Certificate
Local Authority Notification
Full Handover Pack

Total £8,250.00
Vat at 5% £412.50
TOTAL INVOICE £8,662.50

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 21 2:55 pm Post subject:

seems a good price

with battery and off/on grid capability is sensible

batteries have improved fast over the last few years, so a few grand for 2 or 3 days sunshine in store is also sensible if off grid appeals, and it can act as a buffer if the grid goes off.

it depends on your loads as to will it do everything?, but a rig like that is a decent size contribution to most household energy needs

harvest will vary and might be very wide of the "performance target" in either direction

i have been shocked(sorry) at how well they work on a cold sunny day compared to a dull warm one

performance figures are a guide, local and daily parameters can make the harvest go 90% either side of the advertised output

a rig like that would do the lowish load stuff, even cooking and leccy bikes are plausible
, cars, heating or lots of hot water might need other means

solar water is rather a tidy if dilute harvest

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 21 4:07 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

Any thoughts?

No idea about the costs but is the 25 year guarentee underwirtten by anoyone, i.e. what happens if the company goes bust?

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 21 4:07 am Post subject:
Warranty will be with the panel manufacturer rather than the installer, so hopefully the company will still be around in one form or another (there will be a lot of merger and acquisition activity in renewables over the next 25 years, but warranties should carry over to new owners, etc.).

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 21 5:01 am Post subject:

i used to ask folk "do you want it doing properly, or do you want a guarantee that might have no relevance in the future?"

that was damp walls, dry and wet rot etc, at the time there were lots of examples of the gnt having no existence, "capital" or relevant claim clause when it was called in even within a few years of the works being done
some of mine have lasted more than 25 yrs so far

i knew a firm who would underwrite gnts that might have still been ok in 24 yrs and 363 days, but i would not have bought one off em at the price

kit with a good reputation that is well installed is probably better than shopping for a gnt and letting them deal with kit specs now and promise to mend it if it breaks later

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 7:37 am Post subject:
Well we are going for it. Discussed the batteries again on the phone and funnily enough freed of trying to sell them he kind of said its best to wait on that front. In three years time batteries are going to be very different and much cheaper.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 9:23 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

In three years time batteries are going to be very different and much cheaper.

Any more details on that? I can't help thinking with the increase demand prices will stay high.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 11:14 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

jema wrote:

In three years time batteries are going to be very different and much cheaper.

Any more details on that? I can't help thinking with the increase demand prices will stay high.

Think in terms of solar panels over the past couple decades.

Tesla is about to open at least one new battery factory that will produce more than all of the current ones combined. And that's before entering technologies - most of which are focused on refining chemistries that don't require as much of the very expensive, and more ethically and environmentally fraught rare earth elements

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 11:48 am Post subject:
There's a huge number of new entrants into the battery market, including at least one in the UK: https://www.britishvolt.com/ Which may at some stage be able to use UK lithium: https://cornishlithium.com/ Solid State is what everyone is touting as the future for many different reasons, this firm look very close to having a production ready battery: https://factorialenergy.com/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 12:23 pm Post subject:

a battery parameter that might be useful is that "tired" for a car is capable of a "retirement job in the buffering trade" so second use as well as new as a new thing batteries will become cheaper and more available

with pooters i tend to go for a last year's model that has proven itself(or historical and improvised kit), newest has a premium price it does not always deserve
ditto energy harvest and batteries etc.

well done for getting a domestic harvest

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 12:39 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

There's a huge number of new entrants into the battery market, including at least one in the UK:

https://www.britishvolt.com/

I was hoping for something a bit more tangible.

I know there's more manufacturing capacity coming but then there's huge growth in demand, I note British Volt for example say "primarily to power electric vehicles." Then there's the huge amount of batteries needed for all the National Grid power storage plants being built.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 2:40 pm Post subject:

I'm not actively involved in the industry so I can't casually point you at anything more "tangible", as far as I can see there will be a huge surge in battery production over the next few years which I expect will result in lower prices. The huge number of research projects to increase energy density, cost and recyclability, as well as reducing the reliance on rare earth metals will inevitably result in better, cheaper batteries in the near future.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 2:44 pm Post subject:
There's also a lot of talk about capacitors, this is a random UK example: https://powerroll.solar/unique-capacitor-film/

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 21 3:52 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I'm not actively involved in the industry so I can't casually point you at anything more "tangible"

That's why I asked Jema as he was quoting someone who is actually selling them. If I just look for a general answer you see lots of graphs where the price falls decrease year on year as the demand soars.

Edit to add, I'm interested as I'm considering installing some batteries possibly next year so I'm interested in what the cost might be over the next year or two, not what might come along in a decade or two.

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