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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 24 5:25 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

October 2nd 2024, Altech deploy solid state sodium chloride battery for testing
The batteries are claimed to have a 15 year lifetime. Cheap sodium batteries are a key factor in renewable energy storage.

https://www.eqs-news.com/news/corporate/altech-advanced-materials-ag-puts-first-cerenergy-battery-prototype-batterypack-abs60-into-operation/2139847
September 29th 2024, Hyundai promises cheaper LFP battery production
The article alludes to the much touted $100 per kwh figure that was meant to mark production price parity with ICE cars, and puts the 2023 cost at $139. But both BYD and CATL have talked about prices halving in 2024 which would put current costs at $70.
The Hyundai process which eliminates a production step is a promise of another cost reduction.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/09/27/hyundai-cooks-up-a-low-cost-ev-battery-scheme-for-the-affordable-ev-of-the-future/
September 26th 2024, General Motors to produce CATLs 6c charging battery in China
This is a life line for general motors whose sales have collapsed in China. News on this battery that can fully charge in 10 minutes has been around since June, but now we hear it will be in cars in 2025.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/09/26/general-motors-to-produce-ultra-fast-6c-charging-ev-in-china/
September 25th 2024, cheap iron chloride cathodes
The revolutionary material, iron chloride (FeCl3), costs a mere 1-2% of typical cathode materials and can store the same amount of electricity.
The cost of their whole battery system is 30-40% of current LIBs as no Nickel or Cobalt is used.
The technology is pitched as being less than 5 years from commercialisation.

https://news.gatech.edu/news/2024/09/22/new-battery-cathode-material-could-revolutionize-ev-market-and-energy-storage
September 23rd 20202, Lechanche launch long life battery with niobium based anode
The claim is a 10,000 life cycle battery suitable for heavy duty mining applications.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 24 10:06 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

October 12th, 2024 quick and easy Sodium battery anodes
Perhaps not very exciting, but a good example of the innovations that constantly drive the costs of battery production down. Good news for sodium batteries is good news for Lithium prices and hence good news for EVs.

https://techxplore.com/news/2024-10-quick-easy-anode-materials-sodium.html
October 10th 2024 more fast charging news from an unlikely source!
Fast charging claims come thick and fast. This one is still in the lab, but hey it's a slow news week and it's an interesting read.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/new-doped-solid-state-batteries-can-charge-80-cent-just-nine-minutes

October 8th 2024, Store Dot releases ultra fast charging batteries to automakers
The ultimate goal is 3 minute charging.

https://www.store-dot.com/press/storedots-ev-battery-customization-takes-off-5-major-automakers-on-board

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28234
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 5:53 am Post subject:
https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/14/nevs-make-up-3-out-of-every-4-car-sales-for-domestic-brands-in-china/ When the writing on the wall is this clear, who are the mugs anywhere buying new ICE cars? or even expensive used ICE cars? not just in China but anywhere!

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 6:51 am Post subject:
It is mystifying, there are loads of cheap new EVs about now. I met a friend yesterday who,s just leased the same car as mine for £211/month. It won’t even have had a service by the time it goes back

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 9:42 am Post subject:
I thought this article from the guardian was interesting, particularly as it is from the POV of people without the ability to charge from home I hadn't really clocked that second hand EV prices had crashed, as stated. I spose good for those of us interested in buying secondhand but it would make people hesitate to invest in new - perhaps including lease companies?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 10:07 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

perhaps including lease companies?

Dunno, my friends £211 p/month Cupra Born would show the opposite.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46211
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 11:02 am Post subject:
car pricing is not my thing, but £55 a week for a new and cheap to run car seems similar to, if not better than, ice mid-range motors as advertised on telly etc speed reading cupra born made me think of scarabs

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 24 11:05 am Post subject:
Safer to be a scarab than an arab right now

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15967

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 6:36 am Post subject:

There are other things to think about than EV v ICE. Son has just been looking for another car as his is getting to the expensive to keep going age. His wife is disabled so they need a car she can get into but one that has room for her wheelchair and the trike attachment she now has for it. SUVs are out because they are too high for her to get into, and a lot of modern cars just don't have the boot space for a wheelchair. He has gone for a Swace because although not ideal, she can get into it and with a bit of persuasion, the wheelchair and trike will fit in the back while still leaving room for 4 people inside. It will also carry a fair number of bags of charcoal with the back seats down and no wheelchair, and is long enough to take a large besom. Odd requirements, but other people have equally odd requirements.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 8:48 am Post subject:
Absolutely but eventually all those holes will be plugged, but for 90% of people it’s already the most sensible purchase.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 11:20 am Post subject:

might well be a lot less than 90%, if people are choosing not to go for it.

If, as commonly stated, EVs are more reliable and on top of that don't have a lot of value secondhand, then people buying an EV have to do so with a view to keeping it a long time, so have to try to choose something that they feel will cover every eventuality in their lives for some years to come. that does limit the choice somewhat.
EVs have turned everything we thought we knew about buying and selling cars on its head.. it takes time to adjust.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 11:47 am Post subject:
Used car values have collapsed, I don't think petrol or diesel cars are doing any better. I don't think a petrol/diesel car would have retained more value over 8 years than my brothers Tesla has.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46211
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 12:48 pm Post subject:
my neighbour just got a working picasso (large family car shape) for £275, it is wearing £200 worth of almost new tyres the SH market is cheap at the mo, at that sort of price some of the parts are worth more than the car

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8918
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 12:57 pm Post subject:
Now if I could get an E Rifter at that price.. I'm afraid that my petrol Berlingo is going to have to keep me going for a while..I've had it for 6 years + of its 20...

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 1:18 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Used car values have collapsed, I don't think petrol or diesel cars are doing any better.

I don't think a petrol/diesel car would have retained more value over 8 years than my brothers Tesla has.

I don't agree.Aa quick google on the subject gives multiple hits showing that EVs and hybrids lose more value than ICE. Good news, I guess, if you want to buy a secondhand EV, not so good if you want to sell. This might just be a reflection of EVs being too expensive in the beginning..
everyone is quoting figures from HPI, eg autocar who state that 3 year old EVs are 8% lower in retail price than diesel. and 14% lower for 4 year old cars.

good news, as I said for people wanting to buy secondhand, personally I am the kind of person who buys a car and sticks with it to the end of its life, but for those that like to swap every 3 or 4 years, this will make them hesitate.

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