British White Cattle

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British White Cattle
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Old-Chads-Orchard

Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Malpas, Cheshire

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 22 5:01 pm Post subject: British White Cattle
Anyone have experience of the breed on here? Looking for a breed other than the go to Dexter for beef suckler cattle for our smallholder, before I pester the nearest breeder to me wondered if anyone here keeps them? ta

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 1:36 am Post subject:

no, those that have them seem to like them
not much help, but afaik they are not mentioned as unusually "difficult"

highlands are often funny and mostly nice if rather frisky, they are very hardy and good at turning less than promising forage into top quality beef
maybe not a starter moo but better than some breeds

dexters are ace moos even if they can be a bit "wild" in a natural herd, dexter bulls are gentlemen if treated politely, steers can be a bit keen when there are mothers and calves in the herd, they cope well in flood plain or moorside land

kerrys , umm, one died the other was a psychopath escapee monster, if they were typical probably best avoided

as a cow novice i can't help much, work out what they have to eat and take type and numbers from there

ps i met some longhorns on their terms, they seemed nice but not very meaty on very rough forage

a thought, what type of herd are you planning?

at small scale you can mix the "herd" when good shopping opportunities can be found, if you are planning to create a herd by breeding it does need acreage for quite a few and choosing a type to match the land as well as a localish breed community for bull rotations etc

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 2:19 am Post subject:

ooh
where will they live in winter, what will they eat in winter, do you have enough containment kit to keep them in place while they graze and to confine them for "things that must be done", is there water where they will graze, etc? i dont need to know but you do

most cattle jobs need 2 people to be efficient or safe, some jobs are better done with more folk and a good mutt or several

infrastructure really matters with moos

ps how fast can you move? get out of the way is the only good option at times
even after a couple of years living with moos and getting to know their ways the idea of a few "smallholding" ones seems rather intimidating even if i was 30 yrs younger

pigs are charming, moos can be charming and kill you by accident or design

i have done androcles with a free range bull and given a highland a thatcher hairdo but........ they are nice animals and delicious but.......im not sure moos are a smallholder critter, one is not much less work than 30 and the paperwork is bonkers

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 2:24 am Post subject:
next ooh, is there a decent local slaughterhouse that does cattle respectfully? that would matter to me

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 9:51 am Post subject:

Never kept cattle, but there are British white on a nature reserve not too far from us and they seem fairly unphased by people and dogs. As you say, Dexters are reasonable, and I have known a couple or very well behaved ones who were trained for ploughing. A farmer near us was killed by a Highland bull that was usually very docile. Trouble with cows; they are large, even the small breeds, and can kill, sometimes without meaning to.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 10:25 am Post subject: Re: British White Cattle

Old-Chads-Orchard wrote:

Anyone have experience of the breed on here? Looking for a breed other than the go to Dexter for beef suckler cattle for our smallholder, before I pester the nearest breeder to me wondered if anyone here keeps them?

ta

Summary:
IMO dexters are not all that, there are better beasties out there, it depends a lot on the keeper's experience and equipment, I am a fan of bigger but dopier animals, what is the proposed scenario across the year, and let me know if you want to chat WAY too much about cattle

For similar stature but beefier look, have a look at "miniature Hereford". I don't know temperament, but they are not a micro-pig-style scam, they were developed in Canada iirc. If you browse Sellmylivestock there are a couple of keepers in the West Midlands.

Highlands are sweet but the width of the horns can mean needing specialist equipment, or if keeping for slaughter the nearest abattoir might not accept them.

I've got Welsh Whites and Belted Welsh Blacks, the smaller and (I think) tougher cousins to the "improved" Welsh Black. We are looking for new breeders to help save this rare breed...

You'll want something easy to handle if you're in Cheshire, for all the TB tests.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 3:18 pm Post subject:

big has advantages such as half the paperwork, half the vet fees and half the pop and chop fees compared to 2 small ones for the same amount of food/meat

the only belted galloway i had was docile but he was huge by 30 months which has its own issues not least that they sink in soft ground and compact/puddle decent ground

little ones are fairly easily moved a few at a time in a tow stock trailer, big uns will probably need a stock wagon

a slight leftfield thought, moderate size, docile, multipurpose (milk, meat, haulage, leather)
buffalo, found all over Asia as smallholder moos

they are not cheap in the uk and i have no idea what mad hoops would be needed to buy them cheapish and fetch them home using the classic "this is my emotional support buffalo" when boarding the plane

charming animals, quite robust and very tasty

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 3:31 pm Post subject:
There used to be someone on here that kept them, was he called Steve? I think he was keeping them semi wild. might be worth seraching

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: British White Cattle

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

You'll want something easy to handle if you're in Cheshire, for all the TB tests.

And a decent cattle crush set up if your not experienced with cattle.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 8:57 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

charming animals, quite robust and very tasty

Buffalo dairy has just relocated from Wales to - I think - Cornwall. I've met an old buffalo steer and he was HUGE

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 23 10:25 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

There used to be someone on here that kept them, was he called Steve? I think he was keeping them semi wild. might be worth seraching

https://forum.downsizer.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1042 him?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 23 9:13 am Post subject:
There are several farms keeping buffalo in the UK but not sure what sort, although I think they are water buffalo. One used to sell buffalo burgers in Hampshire Farmers Markets, and there is one in Wiltshire or Dorset I think.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 23 9:32 am Post subject:

Quote:

Buffalo dairy has just relocated from Wales to - I think - Cornwall. I've met an old buffalo steer and he was HUGE

compared to me, a newborn dexter is quite big

live wt of a full grown bull is a bit over 1000kg, girls and young meat steers(if there happened to be an oversupply of boys) a bit less

buffalo are about the same size as herefords for a local comparison, big but not beltie G size

re size, a prime consideration is what they will walk on, soft or "delicate" soils are best under small moos, harder ground is ok for bigger ones

if the sig snap is the local soil, ie cheshire red, it can get a bit soft and sticky if wet, really huge ones may be best avoided

how big are the local moos on similar soils? what does the ground look like after they use it?

the existing soil will be altered by cattle, with care it can be made better, used badly it will become a problem

imho, cattle keeping and soil management are intimately linked, especially if they are to eat salad and hay in the long term

perhaps thinking about the soil condition and your intentions for improving that and the flora growing on it is one place to find answers about what type of moo will be best
that may change over time as the soil and flora develop
oddly buffalo can do hard and dry or up to their middles in puddles, dexters can be almost aquatic if necessary
any cattle will puddle and compact softish ground

to that end, what sort of moo keeping is planned?

for improving soil/flora, mob stocking and strip grazing seems to work well on soil that is often wet, was compacted and degraded by industrial arable farming etc
it is labour-intensive in the sense that the herd need a new patch every day, but is easy with bronze age field patterns or only takes an hour or so each day moving the electric fencing along the field
moos need eyeballing every day, so the two jobs take the same time slot

scrub clearance/control needs a different approach and free grazing might work best for that, a good fence and binoculars(and maybe running boots if in with them) are the primary infrastructure required

thinking of fences, good ones are good, even good ones might not be moo proof but they often help, walk the perimeter and consider a lot of meat pressing on it or jumping over it
ps some moos are ace at escape and evasion and reducing that is easier than hunting for and/or apologizing

from a moo point of view, i want some family with me, nice food, a comfortable environment and peaceful calm unless i decide to poke my older brother for a giggle or i get spooked by something to run away from or to jump up and down on

pps some moos have tried to kill me when i posed no threat to them or their rellies, some have trusted me and been easy even when they were distressed by something i was trying to help them with

any moo can kill you by accident, that is worth remembering and the opportunities minimizing, some breeds are known for being feisty, perhaps in some ways they are safer as there is little chance of becoming too trusting of them

ppps are you ready for: trying to position a large beast at 5 am while convincing it that you are a midwife should things be less than going well?
are you ready for its best friend taking against you long term if it goes badly with no blame on yourself/selves?

pppps calling a bull for his free-range shoulder massage in the morning is nice for him and the best hand cream i have ever discovered

the smell of hay and happy moos in the morning makes up for wondering which of them is about to sweep the back of my knees with metre wide horns
to observe your happy moos is splendid

moos are ace, they are also a major commitment and moderately dangeroos "pet you can eat"

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 23 10:55 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

There are several farms keeping buffalo in the UK but not sure what sort, although I think they are water buffalo. One used to sell buffalo burgers in Hampshire Farmers Markets, and there is one in Wiltshire or Dorset I think.

Romanian water buffalo are the usual type kept in the UK.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 23 12:50 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

tahir wrote:

There used to be someone on here that kept them, was he called Steve? I think he was keeping them semi wild. might be worth seraching

https://forum.downsizer.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1042 him?

That's him

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