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NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 23 10:29 am Post subject:
Best thing I've ever seen was a giant man of a farmer with his shin-high dexters swarming him

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 23 10:43 am Post subject:

they may be short but some could enter the bovine moon jumping program

they are small, that makes fences and hedges rather permeable as they seem able to slither through ridiculously small gaps

as far as breeds go dexters have many good points for soft land and a graze based regime
imho the biggest downside to them is they have twice the costs in terms of paperwork, pop and chop, vets etc compared to bigger ones per kilo of meat sold

unless you have a specialized top end market lined up, a more general purpose meat beast might be more suitable to exploit the top end of the mid-range market

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 23 11:21 am Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

Best thing I've ever seen was a giant man of a farmer with his shin-high dexters swarming him

an experienced "sex therapist" farmer somehow retrieving his cap from under an erotic tangle of farmer, a long bull and a short cow was quite a live show that i can never unsee
it was funny once we knew he had not been loved to death in an accidental threesome, while it happened it was horrifying

moos are dangeroos, especially when they do not mean to be
if they mean it, they usually mention it before they go for you, accidents just happen

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 23 8:47 pm Post subject:
If you want quiet cattle,my advise would be to rear a few calves,in your area dairying is plentyful,try and get calves out of a British Friesian herd,Angus cross Friesian make good suckler cows,and come polled due to the Angus.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 23 10:34 pm Post subject:

umm angus and angus cross are tasty

not too frisky from reports of them, as a way to see how cattle work with the land and facilities they might be a good start

naturally polled is an advantage for handling

thinking of handling, infrastructure etc
two people is good even if it should only take one, stuff happens with moos, especially in a mixed role herd
even with two people, a crush would be very useful
plenty of physical barriers etc to direct them as required
decent leccy fencing to contain them or to strip graze, strip grazing is good if you do not have a bronze age field system
transport, that depends, but it needs to be safe and easy
water supplies, fodder supply for winter, fodder store, winter quarters etc

electric fencing, umm ask, i got quite good at it with tuition and developed a few neat tricks for unusual situations and common problems,
useful stuff and essential for strip grazing

oh, holiday and jolly or working days away, emergency or sick for a week needs potential cover, possibly at short notice
moos need a fair bit of regular attention even if they were all being nice and cooperatively munching salad when you last looked.

preparing for moos is more complex than preparing for a first child , at least i had experts showing me while we found out how "amusing" each can be

oh, they are all very different in personality even among half siblings

mostly they are delightful to be with, i miss the smell of moo in the morning, i cant "nudge", run or jump well enough any more to get personal with them, for all their real and dangeroos/expensive faults they are rather nice

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 23 8:01 pm Post subject:
True about the personalities, I have two half sisters, born same year. One wanted human contact from day 1, the other refused to be touched for a year. Both fine now.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 23 8:46 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

True about the personalities, I have two half sisters, born same year. One wanted human contact from day 1, the other refused to be touched for a year. Both fine now.

What breeds or crosses of cattle do you keep out of interest?

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 23 8:44 pm Post subject:
Ancient Welsh (so, Welsh White, Belted Welsh Black, red belted (passports say "coloured Welsh")); a couple have Traditional Hereford sire from a Welsh cow. https://ancientcattleofwales.org/

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 23 9:12 pm Post subject:
Interesting,there`s a farm in Creuddyn Bridge on the way to Lampeter that keeps various coloured Welsh cattle.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8962
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 23 1:25 am Post subject:
Nice looking beasts there NMG

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 23 9:05 am Post subject:

nice moos, showing my ignorance and trying to mend it

are the different colours, conformation, horns etc related to the personality type of the individual ?

ie can you pick for "robust" and fairly independent or "domestic" but needing an easier life by looking at them?

robust even if not aggressive can be rather too exciting if you have a different plan to theirs, robust upset and angry is more efficient than domestic upset and angry, but for some regimes robust is a primary requirement.
if you can use domestic ones, it does make life easier and perhaps longer but the most benign and happy moo can accidentally squash you so never get careless

second question, they seem to have different regional origins, which might be best suited to red cheshire?

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4630
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 23 9:33 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

Good questions!

Character doesn't seem to depend on physicality but I do try to pick out relaxed cows - both for my sake but also if they are highly strung they will spend time on high alert instead of grazing. They don't have to fight off wolves, in fact they are on public access sites so ideally they need to ignore dogs entirely. They are also now fine with main roads, train tracks, and military aircraft practising overhead

Robust I choose by physical type - I like a deep body on short legs - and by the type of land they have come from. I probably wouldn't buy from a nice farm in the south with green grass and sunshine! Younger ones have thrived on grazing and browsing only all year, older cows had a harder adjustment from a "normal" paddock plus daily sugar beet. As/when I get more animals, I plan to select harder for good feet, udders, etc. My older cows have some compromises there. Maybe in future older breeding cows could be coddled a bit but weanlings and in-calf heifers sent up the hills to be "tested"?

The website has broken in a few spots but there is a bit about the regions https://ancientcattleofwales.org/about-2/the-cattle/colours/

I've heard it said that horned animals are more secure because they know they could defend themselves, not sure if there is any truth to that, I couldn't pick out a general difference between Longhorns and Shorthorns in character.

I looked up Creuddyn Bridge, I don't know a herd there but there is one nearby on the A487. I bet there are plenty that aren't on facebook etc.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 12:00 pm Post subject:

thanks, moo lore is fascinating, the subtleties of breed and type can be the difference between just about managing and death or bankruptcy.

public access is a consideration, i had a few passing ramblers that had met the herd and the herd were a herd. once they had calmed a little ,hearing what upset them usually led straight to them not knowing moos and not understanding curiosity
they were more upset by me explaining being upset by a bull was daft and he only wanted a neck massage, and that the steers and nursing mothers are the defensive ones

one of them complained there were moos where the footpath line was, a few feet off the map path but protected by the electric back line was a very good path between the same gates

i spose we have a duty of care, but so do those who ramble etc, and they usually do not know the moo rules ie be sensible and adapt to or manipulate moo mood, and certainly cannot "read the mood" of the moos

the herd mix is worth consideration, steers or moo and heel or bull and cows or natural mix herd with all of those sorting the social stuff between themselves?
all have different dynamics which need matching to the land, regime and human/moo interactions

moos and footpaths can be fine or very dangeroos, some of the public are predictably "difficult", if you do have public access /footpaths as a minimum make sure you have taken reasonable steps to prevent problems, if you can separate the public from the moos without mentioning it helps

i would wade a ditch or wriggle through thorn to be a safe rambler, most ramblers don't, some seem to assume farmers should adjust a business to suit them taking little bonzo for a stroll across a herd's dining table

Old-Chads-Orchard

Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Malpas, Cheshire

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 12:08 pm Post subject:

Ah yes access. The fields have a PoW at the top which I am going to fence off from the pasture, will mean losing about 1/2 an acre of useful ground but would rather than than allow muppets to wander about with the moo's. Currently have an issue with some leaflet on the Bishop Bennet Way having poor instructions so that walkers who cannot follow metal signs follow the leaflet and end up in the farm yard about 1/2 a mile off the path. New fence should stop that. Plan to spend this year preparing for moo's and look at getting some next year now.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 1:02 pm Post subject:

re horns, are they made to kill or to dig through snow? is a good question when looking at potential moos, both are ok if you know what to expect

sabre or trenching tool?

it does not give a firm marker for personality, but it does indicate damage capability during accidents or deliberate aggression

blunt force is slightly better than big hole and blunt force

thinking of such, learning more than the basics of pre-hospital trauma life support and having a few useful bits of "first aid kit" seemed sensible
"first aid kit" can be improvised, knowledge cannot

farm life has different parameters to "expedition" etc but there is a fair bit of cross over, not least in that assistance might take a while to arrive and be too late without good immediate interventions

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