EV and short journeys

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EV and short journeys
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Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 3:04 pm Post subject: EV and short journeys

most of the problems I have with ICE vehicles come from the fact I don't drive a lot. Cars sitting on the driveway are bad for their tyres and bad for their batteries. Bad for the exhaust system too. My mileage is very low - which I think is a good green thing - but it does cause problems.

I've just had to replace a battery - sooner than I imagined, and was told that the problem is not taking the car out a lot, or going very far when I do, that this will shorten the life of the battery.

I'm thinking my next car might well be an EV, and so am asking questions.... how will my habits of not driving a lot or far effect the efficiency and life of an EV ?

I keep hearing that they might be an economical good more for someone who commutes a lot.. but I don't, so does that mean they are a financially rubbish move for a low user? They are heavier, so will this knacker the tyres faster if it sits idle often? what about if they are not charged often?

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 3:41 pm Post subject:

Eventually, tires need movement. I would think the rubber will age at the same rate depending upon environmental conditions more than vehicle weight. (The psi of the tire is the same, regardless of the weight). Simply moving the vehicle a quarter your rotation every couple weeks would probably help at least a little. For long term storage folks will often jack a vehicle up on to blocks. I can understand that not being an option
Lithium ion batteries have a very different chemistry, and therefore ideal usage, and expected lifespan than lead acid batteries. For instance, you wouldn't want to charge it up above 80% of you weren't needing that range for a drive. Also, newer cars will have a fair bit of phantom load, depending, so you'd possibly need to re charge the battery prior to expected use.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46245
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 3:42 pm Post subject:

bike batteries are fine with regular or top up charging, ditto tool ones, very off grid kit, etc

Everything else is mileage, the number of discharge/recharge cycles and a squirt of wd40 when resting

for occasional use, leccy is probably more reliable than ice

the best ice is reliable, even when rested, most is not

average to good leccy stuff seems reliable in full use or with monitored* rest

tyres are time, sun etc+ use, the running gear and brakes etc on either EV or ICE will rest as well as that model of car is built for

reliable can be a variety of things, cossack, RR custom landy etc, if you like tools and oily fingers
or it can be park a reasonably priced car that usually works to go to an appointment or shopping after it had a snooze on the drive

EV is the easy end of such things

* if it has sat for a while, poke the test button and if it is not reading full and is under 25% charge all the batteries, deep self discharge is not good for them.
the bonus to that is it has a full battery when you need it

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 4:07 pm Post subject:

Most EVs have a 12v battery, that is likely to be your point of failure if you don’t drive very often. I guess a short drive weekly will keep the 12v battery topped up (they generally run all the onboard electricals so failed one can mean that you can’t start but a trickle charger or a new battery will fix it).

There’s been times when I’ve not driven for a couple of weeks and not had an issue

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46245
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 4:24 pm Post subject:
most ice? the traditional ice car lead acid batteries are carp at snoozing, kick/crank and magneto is reliable(sort of) i may be wrong but EVs probably have a snooze mode powered from the main battery same as the electronics are powered from the main battery when in use

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 4:43 pm Post subject:
Some EVs inexplicably don’t, so like I say it’s a point of failure ( you’d think it would be obvious that the 12v battery should be trickle charged from the main one but clearly not)

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 7:19 pm Post subject:

Perhaps it's a foregone conclusion, but with very infrequent use I would be sharply penciling out the cost/benefit analysis of buying one's own vehicle, versus ride-sharing in some form or another. Whether that's joint ownership between 2 or 3 nearby parties, or a more complicated joint ownership subscription model, or simply utilizing Lyft/Uber your services. At some point of infrequency of usage, even the potentially higher prices per mile are still a lot lower total cost, and with much less, or at least very different risk profiles.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 8:08 pm Post subject:

In an urban setting, I can definitely see relying on uber/ taxi or car share or hiring a car as needed would make sense, however I am not in an urban setting. There is no uber, and taxis have to be booked.
Plus my life and responsibilities as a carer means I need immediate access to a vehicle. I believe it would be cheaper to go everywhere by taxi compared to the cost of a new EV, but I need more immediate access to travel

I do take the car out at least once a week, for at least 20 mins, usually more. The car doesn't sit idle for weeks, yet I am still told by mechanics and RAC that the low mileage causes problems to battery and tires.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 8:14 pm Post subject:
I think you’d be ok with an ev then, there are so few moving parts compared to an ICE, my brothers had a Tesla for 8 years, had it serviced maybe twice. Nothing that needs doing really

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 24 10:14 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I think you’d be ok with an ev then, there are so few moving parts compared to an ICE, my brothers had a Tesla for 8 years, had it serviced maybe twice. Nothing that needs doing really

I read somewhere ( sorry I forget where) that a third of all breakdown callouts on EVs are punctures

Does this mean they have more punctures?, or, as I suspect, there is less to go wrong on an EV there will be a higher proportion of puncture breakdowns, whereas ICE cars have a load of other things that can go wrong

Also.. a friend of my parents ( never a reliable source) says that when they had a puncture it was impossible to change the tyre, and AA couldn't either as car too heavy (a mini,) and car would have to be towed every time . Is this true?

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28238
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 24 5:07 am Post subject:
The 12 volt battery is a weak spot, I have a timer set to tell me I need to take a drive or else it's jump leads. I'm surprised it hasn't been engineered out of EVs, though there are very good reasons why not in reality.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8951
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 24 8:11 am Post subject:
I have a small solar panel on the dash which trickle charges the battery when I don't use the car for a while

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46245
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 24 8:16 am Post subject:

the 12v battery is a minor issue, if it is a problem a basic 12v "battery boost" pack should be adequate.
they are not expensive and easier than messing about with a spare 12v battery(or one in a car) and crocodile clip jump leads

if it is an issue, a better 12v battery might be a cheap and easy chop

re punctures, it seems more plausible that less other things are available to break, pushing punctures to number three in the charts

re changing tyres, it seems unlikely that an EV has more issues than ice, as far as wt , evs are not unusually heavy and often weigh less than the SUV/APC type ice cars that are popular at the mo

we have had to take a gas axe to some wheel nuts

there are less extreme means that still require garage facilities

a simple puncture, if you have a spare wheel, the jack that belongs to the vehicle and a good wheel brace(car ones are carp) takes minutes at most on a good day, things can be "complicated" but vehicle wt is rarely a problem
the anecdote is not specific enough to be credible as a reason to avoid ev

re resting tyres, they degrade in use they degrade in storage, they last far longer not being used

in the sun and weather for a decade will kill most tyres,tt tyres might last a few laps they might not, drag tyres one race maybe, F1 tyres part of a race etc

domestic tyres, used moderately sensibly, should be good for 20000 miles or more, several years for you and storage most of the time will be no less degrading than use most of the time

tyres are consumables like screenwash or glove box jerky

ps modern tyres are pretty good, probably not worth worrying too much about tyres, if you do need super strong(rural potholes etc) decent rims, run flats, kevlar etc are your friend

pps have a look at the state of the tyres on other folks vehicles

it may convince you that tyre discipline is wise and they are not

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45674
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 24 8:24 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

tahir wrote:

I think you’d be ok with an ev then, there are so few moving parts compared to an ICE, my brothers had a Tesla for 8 years, had it serviced maybe twice. Nothing that needs doing really

I've had two punctures, both were very deep potholes hidden under flooded roads. My brother has had none, my nephew has had an EV for several years he hasn't had one either.

I really can't imagine a Mini EV is any heavier than say a Range Rover or similar, that sounds like total bollox to me

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46245
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 24 8:34 am Post subject:

for once or twice a week(or month) ev is probably more reliable at turn the key and go than ice

ice has so many things that break, most are now full unit replacements, £400 for a broken wiper motor as a £12 motor is only available in a £400 multi component unit is an example i can think of
they replaced the car

the stuff that makes ice move is over complex and expensive, a ten yr old reasonably priced ice car might cost more to mend each year than it cost

ev is newish tech, but there are less breakable bits which hints at less to mend

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