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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 1:54 pm Post subject: Whaling

The whale in the Thames thing just got me thinking about marine conservation in general again. Here we are (in Britain) hard line against the resumption of commercial whaling, I don't know anyone that doesn't express disgust at the thought yet we are more or less (along with our EU partners) continuing to rape and plunder our own seas of virtually any creature whether it ends up in the food chain or not.

Are whales the cutesy wutesy fluffy pets of the sea? Why is it any less important to protect everything else in the sea?

As far as I can see the proposed cuts in EU fishing quotas are minimal and won't really arrest the decline of the fisheries in our waters at all. Are we making a fuss? Not really.

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:02 pm Post subject:
Er...agree...er...

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:04 pm Post subject:
They aren't fluffy, I think you're mixing them up with seals. But I agree that it's easier to get people to care about things which are cuddly, hence 'vegetarians' who eat fish and/or chicken.

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:05 pm Post subject:

It would be great to be able to stop fishing for a few years to allow stocks to improve but what about the people who directly and indirectly depend on the industry (the UK is a maritime country whos laws, economy, and society are direcly related to the maritime industry developed through fishing)
the quotas imposed over the last few years have killed the Scotish white fish boats .... but the quotas have improved fish stocks...Think DEFRA should be putting the new sats online soon. Its not quotas that are needed but tighter controls on gears (net size, type or gears )

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:06 pm Post subject:
We once had the biggest whaling fleet in the world...

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:07 pm Post subject:
one thing I worry about is that whale numbers (the smaller species) have reached a high naumber and next friday it looks like europe will agree it is sustainable to start whaling again

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:10 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

one thing I worry about is that whale numbers (the smaller species) have reached a high naumber and next friday it looks like europe will agree it is sustainable to start whaling again

It probably will, but do you think enough is being done to safeguard the rest of marine life?

I'm sure that the Canadian cod fisheries had the same issues as ours, they fished them to extinction, hasn't helped much really has it?

Isn't that more or less what we're doing?

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:22 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

gingerwelly wrote:

one thing I worry about is that whale numbers (the smaller species) have reached a high naumber and next friday it looks like europe will agree it is sustainable to start whaling again

in Canada the government made no attempt to reduce cod fishing until thelevels had droped so low that the ecosystem had changed and was unable to support the fishery .....also at that time due to the territorial fishing rights they had little or no power over who fished in the water (american,and boats from japan) .... sadly the total collapse of the Canadian cod fishery (1980s) was needed to promt a rapid change in the marine policy and management ..... sustainablity been a key area, intergrating managemnent,conservation and social-economic aspects ... europe and uk are addressing the commercial stocks (have to see what the new marine bill will say about non commercial)

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:24 pm Post subject:
So in your opinion our fisheries are managed sustainably?

bagpuss

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:28 pm Post subject:
Unfortunately we may of got to the point it is no longer plausible to fish sustainably and econmically We need to stop fishing certainly by nets but then what would the economic impact be the EU if we stopped the majority of commercial fisheries?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:31 pm Post subject:

bagpuss wrote:

We need to stop fishing certainly by nets but then what would the economic impact be the EU if we stopped the majority of commercial fisheries?

That's the thing though, if we carry on it'll die of (un)natural causes anyway, so why fartarse around, it's not like the EU's penniless. I'd like to see them step in and cut capacity savagely, at least that gives us some potential future fisheries.

Or am I just unduly pessimistic?

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:33 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

So in your opinion our fisheries are managed sustainably?

no sadly as yet they are not and im not sure they ever will be, the marine environment is too dynamic .... but a total ban on fishing is not sustainable
But with the quotas etc I feel that fishing is a small part of the decline in fish such as cod ... in the past 15 yrs (think) the north sea has warmed by 2degrees causing cod to move north by several miles ,as well as hydrocarbon extraction,polution (direct and indirect) and now new species moving into the ecosystem due to extra nutrients and inc temp ... management needs to intergrate these other management factors

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:36 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

a total ban on fishing is not sustainable

Why not?

How many people worked in whaling/mining/textiles and associated industries? They're all more or less gone but we still have one of the strongest economies in the world.

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:46 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

gingerwelly wrote:

a total ban on fishing is not sustainable

Why not?

How many people worked in whaling/mining/textiles and associated industries? They're all more or less gone but we still have one of the strongest economies in the world.

yes but the idea of sustainability is to protect and meet the needs of todays population while ensuring the needs of future generations are also met ....so a total ban on fishing means the loss of a traditional industry, culture ( look at Shetland and many parts of Scotland ) decline of rural life in these areas, linked tourism etc

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:49 pm Post subject:
and the improvement of fish stock...although small does show that the management steps are working , but yes i dod think they need to be improved

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