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Downsizer Forum Index -> Energy Efficiency and Construction/Major Projects

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Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 4:51 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

But whats the sums on them? And then there's the recent "discovery" that plant growth generates methane.

In theory, the perfect biomass system would be carbon-neutral (except you'd need to make it out of concrete...). I'm not overly concerned by the methane discovery - as I see it, it just makes the natural carbon cycle a little more complex, but doesn't in itself represent a net increase in greenhouse gas production (otherwise the planet would have been merrily warming itself up before we came along and built big chimneys all over it).

puffedpride

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 300
Location: bristol

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 6:03 pm Post subject:
Johnny Boy is right - it is insane not to be focussing on reductions in consumption. We should be trying to supplant quantitative economic growth with qualitative alternatives. And sell it to the electorate on a self-interest basis somehow.

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 6:35 pm Post subject:

puffedpride wrote:

Johnny Boy is right - it is insane not to be focussing on reductions in consumption. We should be trying to supplant quantitative economic growth with qualitative alternatives. And sell it to the electorate on a self-interest basis somehow.

Which seems to be exactly what is currently not happening.

The whole issue is being swept under the carpet.

If I understand the whole nuclear energy thing correctly you either need to keep mining uranium (not feasible since stocks are liable to run out before oil does at current rate of use) OR you reprocess the stuff into plutonium (unwise since it makes lots of material for terrorosts to play with). Sooner we give up on the whole idea of the great nuclear panacea the better it seems.

monkey1973

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 683
Location: Bonnie scotland

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 7:23 pm Post subject:

Shane wrote:

tahir wrote:

But whats the sums on them? And then there's the recent "discovery" that plant growth generates methane.

In theory, the perfect biomass system would be carbon-neutral (except you'd need to make it out of concrete...).

Current coal fueled power stations are capable of converting to biomass at a relatively small expense. Before I gave up working I was involved in designing and constructing a biomass storage facility at Longannet power station in Kincardine.

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 7:30 pm Post subject:
[quote="monkey1973. Before I gave up working I was involved in designing and constructing a biomass storage facility at Longannet power station in Kincardine.[/quote] Ah, interesting. But I guess it's much harder to convert the Gas and Oil ones?

monkey1973

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 683
Location: Bonnie scotland

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 7:32 pm Post subject:
I would expect so

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 7:34 pm Post subject:
Incidentally just found a refence that attributes 7% of global C02 emissions to Concrete production.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46263
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 8:01 pm Post subject:

its burns night , rabbie not montgomery please.
the nuclear industry grew out of the "need"for plutonium to put the bang in the physics package . if , and it is a big if , it was run in a responsible manner ,without reprocessing (better be cos thorp dont work )and with a safe (for a very long time )storage method for irradiated fuel and decommissioned plant (there isnt any yet )and no reputation for breaking (three mile island ,chernoble and our dear old windscale fire etc )i might consider it a sensible option .
as it stands i think coppice , tidal ,hydroelectric ,wind ,solar heat , geothermal etc and reducing demand for both energy and things makes more sense

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46263
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 8:05 pm Post subject:
you have pu in your teeth . job done .

oldhibberd

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 118

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 06 8:07 pm Post subject:
dpack, please explain? My limited knowledge of the subject says that you either mine uranium or you reprocess it into plutonium, aren't these the only current options? I can't see either of these as "responsible".

Shane

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 06 8:30 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

the nuclear industry grew out of the "need"for plutonium to put the bang in the physics package . if , and it is a big if , it was run in a responsible manner ,without reprocessing (better be cos thorp dont work )and with a safe (for a very long time )storage method for irradiated fuel and decommissioned plant (there isnt any yet )and no reputation for breaking (three mile island ,chernoble and our dear old windscale fire etc )i might consider it a sensible option.

No offence, but strikes me that you've made you mind up based on your first impressions, rather than actually looked at the facts and figures.

dpack wrote:

you have pu in your teeth .
job done .

Care to expand a little?

monkey1973

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 683
Location: Bonnie scotland

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 06 12:38 pm Post subject:
There's a few threads about this at the moment but I thought I would post this as it seems to contain some useful comparison figures on power capacities

moggins

Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 942
Location: Gloucester

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 06 2:54 pm Post subject:

Maybe I shouldn't be admitting to this but pre MSE and Downsizer our monthly direct debit for electricity was 75 pound a month (ooh it's bugging me losing my pound sign) and 60 pounds for Gas.

Now electric is down to 60 a month and Gas is down to 40. They sent a nice cheque in November for 240 for the amount we were in credit for the Gas and we are already in credit for nearly 100 for the electric.

We're definitely getting there, if it wasn't for the kids leaving all the bedside lamps on in their rooms in the morning and DH leaving the computer running when he is watching TV then I'm sure we could do a lot better. He refuses to make any compromises to his behaviour as he seems to think I am treating him like a child when I remind him to turn things off, is there anyway I can get him to think it is his idea?

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 06 11:36 am Post subject:

NEWS RELEASE

Nobel House, 17 Smith Square, London SW1P 3JR
Out of hours telephone 020 7270 8960 Ref: 49/06
Date: 3 February 2006

Government urges greener digital tv services

Digital TV broadcasters, manufacturers and retailers are being urged by the government not to promote or sell those set top boxes which waste energy.

Environment Minister Elliot Morley is writing to all the major digital TV broadcasters, service providers and retailers urging them to sign up to the EU Code of Conduct which sets energy efficiency standards for digital TV equipment.

The code, already supported by BSkyB, could save UK consumers from wasting millions of pounds on electricity bills as well as benefiting the environment, said Mr Morley.

Appliances such as TVs, computers and hi-fi�s left on standby waste more than �740 million worth of energy a year and cause more than four million tonnes of extra carbon emissions, adding to the problem of climate change.

Mr Morley said:

�We have seen a dramatic increase in the sale of digital TV equipment such as set top boxes, and millions of energy-wasting products are flooding through high-street retailers.

�Consumer demand for new equipment is set to continue, as the nation switches to digital TV. With a boom in demand, however, comes a risk of greater energy consumption - we could end up wasting enough electricity to power 850,000 homes a year.�

Defra estimates that there could be 80 million set-top boxes in the UK by 2010.

Notes to editors
European Voluntary Code of Conduct on Energy Efficiency of Digital TV Services
The initiative � supported by the Government, the European Commission and major equipment manufactures � has set out energy efficiency specifications for digital TV set top boxes and integrated digital TVs which can be used directly as procurement of buying specification.

Eco-Design (EUP) Directive
The EUP framework directive was adopted in June 2005. This encourages voluntary agreements by industry to raise efficiency standards for energy-using products. The directive may also set mandatory requirements for products supplied to EU markets, for example the existing efficiency standards which apply to boilers. Lighting ballasts and household refrigerators.

G8 Commitments
The UK has pledged to support the International Energy Agency's One Watt initiative, which aims to reduce the amount of energy used by appliances on standby to below one watt by 2010.

The government launched a public consultation on its Energy Review in January.

Sustainable Products Policy is supported by the Government�s Market Transformation Programme www.mtprog.com

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