environmental plans

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environmental plans

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46244
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 20 2:40 pm Post subject: environmental plans
told yer so

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 20 8:29 pm Post subject:
Not quite so straight forward as Fiona implies.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15993

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 20 8:30 am Post subject:
What have you heard Ty Gwyn? I have just got higher tier CS, and the rules are fairly stringent, but that is an EU grant. Looking at the maps for the application, part of our wood is in a nitrate sensitive zone, and various other ones too.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 20 11:43 am Post subject:

For a start as it stands now,schemes in England are different to Wales,
Every area and every farm is different.

I presume you don`t spread fertilizer and slurry in your woods,so why worry.

That article like most things written in the Guardian are alarmist,it may as well have been written by George Wombat,if anyone thinks that we`ll be able to cut hedge`s after the present cut off date,they`re living in cuckoo land.

At present I get a Single Farm payment,that is supposed to end in a year or so,no definite date as yet,previously I was paid on headage payments,and in Wales the single farm payment was based on the average of 3 years,1999,2000 and 2001 if I remember correctly.

When the single farm payment ends,supposedly its only environment payments farmers will get,so if next door farm wants to plant tree`s on half his land and reduce his stock,he`ll get a bigger payment than me.

It doesn't mean farmers will be given a free hand to do as they like,them days have long gone.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15993

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 20 7:46 am Post subject:

No it doesn't, but we don't know what will replace it, which is a problem. Currently I have just started a higher tier CS, but of course that could be rescinded any time after the end of the year, even though I am supposed to have a 5 year contract (usual in forestry) as it is EU money. I have to do another management plan as mine only has a few years to run, so I only have a felling licence until the end of it. I have no idea if I will get another to replace it as part of my management plan or if I will have to have one for each lot of felling, which will be a nuisance as we do little and often rather than a lot at a time.

We have no idea what the rules will be in the future; if they continue along the present rules, we at least know where we are, if nothing is put in place, goodness knows.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 20 9:48 am Post subject:

Like I said,the subsidy system is different between England and Wales.
We in Wales were informed a few years before 2016 EU vote that the subsidy system was changing from Single Farm payments to Environment payments only,and had paper work showing our reduced farm payments for the years till they ceased,as it happened,they never did reduce the payments and as it stands I believe the payments are to continue for a few years yet.

A number of years back I signed up to a Tir Gofal scheme,hedging,double fencing and capital works,it was a 10yr plan with the option of pulling out after 5yrs if not suited,as it turned out they ran out of funds so no capital works were done in the last 5yrs even though I had sent in all material estimates,seeked planning and grade 2 consents.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15993

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 9:36 am Post subject:
Running out of funds is going to be the problem I think, as this money is going to have to be found out of the British government budget rather than most coming from the EU.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 10:00 am Post subject:
The funds ran out in my case over 10yrs ago.

gregotyn

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2201
Location: Llanfyllin area

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 11:23 am Post subject:

Basically I try to plant a few trees every year of ash and oak in holes in the field boundaries. I also planted some conifers on the roadside to grow my own rails for fencing which are now ready for harvesting. The Question is can I harvest the conifers when I want to, or do I have to ask somebody who knows more than often is good for them or me? If I do I guess it will cost as well! I would be replacing them after felling.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 11:40 am Post subject:
Have you filled out your request for permission to ask a question form yet?

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 11:47 am Post subject:
We have conservation funds available to farmers and landholders, but the requirements are typically linked to the funding. Is there situation over there more regulatory, or is there some similarity to over here where you can do much of what you want to do on your own land with no oversight, provided you aren't pressing those extra fundings?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46244
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 20 1:02 pm Post subject:

complicated, different in different parts of the uk, we did have eu by acres subsidies then there was assorted environmental/conservation add-ons which are condition dependant.
plus some ngo/charity funding for some projects

the rules are different for forestry than pastoral, i have idea how fruit and veg works, etc

what happens next is unknown, a combo of greenwashing and making sure 11000 acres with 500 grouse on it gets a massive subsidy seems likely along with removing the protections to standards

bankrupting folk(and/or using force and/or ownership of the judiciary) and having a land grab has been done before by kleptocrats and might be part of the plan.
this lot are well capable of having such a plan for a lot of stuff.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15993

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 20 9:33 am Post subject:

In your case Gregotyn, you will have to get your friendly librarians to find the web page for Wales, as you have different rules to England. It will depend upon how much you want to fell and the diameter of the trees, but in England, for your own use you are allowed to fell up to 5cum per quarter if the trees are over a certain size, and no restriction if under. You need to check.

As for what is going to happen, we will just have to wait and see, which isn't good for long term planning, as everyone has been telling the government ever since the referendum.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 20 11:00 am Post subject:
When one considers the number of times and different ways the Agriculture policy has changed over the last 50yrs,and the fact we were informed of another change well before the referendum.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15993

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 20 8:21 am Post subject:
Well we were informed that things would change, and I know the FC have been working on a plan ever since then, which may well be very good as it is specific to forestry. However the politicians haven't actually decided what they are going to go for and how they are going to fund it.

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