Why do we expect our rubbish to be collected?

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Why do we expect our rubbish to be collected?
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Mrs R

Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:39 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.

I don't think so, we haven't established what the exact methods would be!

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:46 pm Post subject:

Dances With Cows wrote:

cab wrote:

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.

I don't think so, we haven't established what the exact methods would be!

Not really. At present you can basically do what you like with rubbish and while, in theory, if you fly tip it, let it pile up, burn it, or whatever, you might be in trouble. In practice no one in any kind of authority cares. At all. Even a bit. So the result is that individuals get away with being dreadful. And unfortunately thats also true for lots of other petty crime like nicking a few things from shops, speeding,etc. To change things such that there are real ways of people dealing with waste in a future where we're meant to get rid of our own... Its unrealistic. Sorry. I don't see us getting hard on any of those other criminal activities either.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:49 pm Post subject:

Bernie66 wrote:

Tax packaging more. or better still ban some packaging types

That isn't enough on its own. Its not a bad idea, like.

Personally I'd like to see things like bottles and bags have value. Why the heck are we melting down bottles and jars to make more bottles and jars? Put a deposit on them and re-use them.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:50 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

Its not a bad idea, like.

You've gorn all Geordie again.
A.

Mrs R

Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:52 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

Dances With Cows wrote:

cab wrote:

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.

I don't think so, we haven't established what the exact methods would be!

You have simply described above what happens now, today - that could be changed. You don't see us getting hard on other criminals, but I don't see why if there was a real push to sort out the waste system, this particular area would be concentrated on by the new people in charge of the whole project. Making it easy for people to comply and somehow punishing those that don't is all part of the implementation of the new scheme as I see it. I actually think that just as now most people don't want to break the law and live in a stinking midden, the same attitudes would apply to the new way.

baldybloke

Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1388
Location: Wiltshire

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 4:46 pm Post subject:

paul1963 wrote:

Dee J wrote:

"Why the heck do so many people need a whole car load of over-packaged junk every week?"

1)Because they hope it makes them feel better and confirm life is worthwhile.

2)Because to a greater or lesser extent we're all(well mostly) good obedient consumers who absorb all the advertising hype and do as we're told. We're all part of the wonderful capitalist consumerist culture - too busy with chasing the next 'must-have' to look up and notice all the wonderful things our government does in our name......

Dee

Absolutely, and if people don't wake up to that then we're all going to hell in a handcart before too long...

Shouldn't that be hell in a dustcart?
Personally I think the WI had it right by returning all the packaging back to the point of sale - the supermarket.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 7:18 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

All my shopping is done by bike. I don't relish the thought of riding back to the shop with a rucksack full of compostables.

Better to reduce the amount of carp people buy IMHO. Why the heck do so many people need a whole car load of over-packaged junk every week?

'Cause they don't need to worry about what happens to it at the other end? Not the whole reason, but a big part of it.

Jo S

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5174
Location: Somerset

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 7:25 pm Post subject:
What about those who don't drive? What do they do with their rubbish?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 7:37 pm Post subject:

robkb wrote:

cab wrote:

All my shopping is done by bike. I don't relish the thought of riding back to the shop with a rucksack full of compostables.

My thoughts too. I shop by car (a family of four's weekly shop doesn't fit in a rucksack!!) and don't really fancy filling my boot with last week's rubbish before refilling it with this week's food. Rob's comment about the possibility of rubbish collections and food deliveries being made by the same vehicle is a good idea in principle but would you really be happy with trash and food being stored in the same truck?

You don't have to tip rubbish in like a dust cart and then tip your food into the boot - I go to the tip and return after going to the shop, it really isn't an issue.

Rubbish doesn't multiply either, so the volume of waste will be less than the volume of shopping. The idea isn't to store food or waste in a truck, merely to transport it to a recycling hub. Some waste wouldn't be practical, obviously, but some would. If fuel prices continue to rise we may not have a choice, as haulage won't pay in either direction with empty lorries.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 7:39 pm Post subject:

Jo S wrote:

What about those who don't drive? What do they do with their rubbish?

Transport it however they transport themselves and their food/other goods. The mode of transport is irrelevant to the principle, it's all just transport.

Jo S

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5174
Location: Somerset

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 7:42 pm Post subject:
Well, the majority of packaging that I have to dispose of comes from online orders. I may be an exception, and it's not as though I'm not mobile, but I'm also contemplating a situation where I have to take a bin bag on the bus - a bin bag containing, as one did the other day, my usual rubbish, including dog muck, and the heads, feet, feathers and guts of four pheasants...

kirstyfern

Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 1574
Location: Great Dunmow, Essex

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 8:01 pm Post subject:

Bernie66 wrote:

Tax packaging more. or better still ban some packaging types

I saw organic apples in Sainsburys are now packed in degradable starch bags, ok they are not completely clear but you can see the apples and if you are buying prepacked apples at least it is better than the plastic bags the other apples are wrapped in.

If all packaging had to be biodegradable then it would at least help if (sorry, WHEN) it ended up in landfill.

I remember when the takeaways put burgers in the polystyrene cartons, they contained CFCs and were banned, they now use cardboard boxes and cups, they are still dumped on roadsides but at least they degrade quicker!

Packaging is the main problem, that is the supermarkets and has to be good for transport reasons I suppose, but loads of stuff could be wrapped in paper / cardboard / biodegradable bags rather that the non recyclable stuff - mushroom and tomato trays are plastic, yet the loose apples come with 'egg box' type recycled mulch, it would make more sense if this was used with the other veg...

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 8:06 pm Post subject:

I think we are guilty of both over complicating and over simplifying the suggestion that we think about this. You wouldn't have a bin bag, as that is an application designed for a bin lorry, and you may have to still have collections, however they'd be far less frequent than they are now (and possibly charged for?).

I had an awful lot of cardboard that I've been saving up under the false impression that they were going to start collecting it in the new year. It looked an awful lot but once it was packed sensibly the volume was much reduced. If I'd had a place to take it at the shop I could have easily done it, even walking with a back pack.

Let's not take this to absolute conclusions, as I haven't any, and it's open to discussion.

Jo S

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5174
Location: Somerset

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 8:10 pm Post subject:
I was just thinking of my own circumstances, since that's all any of us have to go on. A reduction in packaging (fresh veg, for example) combined with the development of eco packaging for things wot have to be contained seems to be the best way forward as a more practical solution.

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 11 8:20 pm Post subject:

kirstyfern wrote:

Bernie66 wrote:

Tax packaging more. or better still ban some packaging types

Exactly. My thoughts exactly. BAN plastic packaging unless it's the ONLY way and then tax the cr*p out of it to change habits. Sorted.

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