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Employment routes
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Gervase



Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

"self-employed consultant" may be seen by HMRC as mere sleight of hand on the part of your employer; does it fall under IR35? Either way, in the current climate, neither offers much security, but self-employed allows you to claw back a lot more in tax (home as office, allowances etc etc). The downside is no pension, no SSP etc. Tricky choice. Can you set up an independent entity (LLP, Ltd Co etc) to "sell" your skills to your employer?

alice



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 2820

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Yeah, there used to be an issue with HMRC whereby you couldn't call yourself SE if you only worked for only one company. But my experience is a few years old now.

alice



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 2820

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Cross posted with Gervase.

'Employment' with security and a nice pension is rare nowadays. You've done well to enjoy it this long tbh

snowball
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 6246
Location: swindon
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

IR35 is still an issue.
Don't underestimate how much time and stress sorting out tax etc for yourself is.
Although they are taking away a lot of employment rights, it is still the case that there is a bit more security in being employed, including holiday and sick pay.
Get proper advice and best of luck.

welsh veg grower



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 2030
Location: here today but tomorrow...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

IR35 would apply you need to be issuing invoices to more than 1 company and not spending most / all of the working week with 1 company HMRC are not that daft and would see through that one. The company are wrong to offer it as an option they are avoiding the legalities of being an employer. Bit naughty

for what its worth I'd go with the employed as you would have some rights

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Yes, although the paperwork should be simple it can take a fair bit of time so factor that in to your calculations. Some of the laws are open to interpretation/change etc and accountants can also make mistakes.

On the other hand could you work elsewhere as well, increasing your income?

If you're seriously thinking of freelancing then it might be worth joining these people: https://www.pcg.org.uk

Edit to add I'm not sure some of the comments on IR35 in this thread are correct but you can get your contract/employment situation checked and underwritten.

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Yes, although the paperwork should be simple it can take a fair bit of time so factor that in to your calculations. Some of the laws are open to interpretation/change etc and accountants can also make mistakes.

On the other hand could you work elsewhere as well, increasing your income?

If you're seriously thinking of freelancing then it might be worth joining these people: https://www.pcg.org.uk

Edit to add I'm not sure some of the comments on IR35 in this thread are correct but you can get your contract/employment situation checked and underwritten.


What TD said.

Love the Octopus TD, is he called Paul

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Penny Outskirts wrote:
Love the Octopus TD, is he called Paul


Paula, although she didn't predict the footy results very well so I should have eaten her after all.

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Penny Outskirts wrote:
Love the Octopus TD, is he called Paul


Paula, although she didn't predict the footy results very well so I should have eaten her after all.



dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

paye or ltd co

in between has perils i wouldn't want

paye =paperwork done ,employment law is handy and after a year is very handy

ltd = you get the paperwork done (as an expense )and the ltd co employs you and your dog etc ie minimal tax ,claim vehicle /insurance ,claim clothes etc etc .but you need sickness insurance .pay for conferences etc etc .

bottom line is would the saved tax cover the insecurity ?

with only one employer i would go for paye

marigold



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:

with only one employer i would go for paye


This. You need to earn A LOT more to make it worth the hassle of being self-employed or running a limited company if you are basically working for one employer. Either you have to spend unpaid hours doing paperwork or pay someone else to do it (most likely both). And if you turn over more than �77k you'll have to do VAT as well. Factor all that into your calculations. Also check what the deal is about claiming expenses, using a company vehicle/mobile/computer etc if you aren't on the payroll.

What's wrong with staying where you are, with all the benefits you get there?

To replace what you've got now you may need to buy a pension, life insurance (your current company probably provides some nice death in service cover), professional indemnity insurance, personal health insurance, private medical insurance... As well as covering holidays, bank holidays, tax, NICs etc and paying yourself a salary.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

marigold wrote:
dpack wrote:

with only one employer i would go for paye


This. You need to earn A LOT more to make it worth the hassle of being self-employed or running a limited company if you are basically working for one employer. Either you have to spend unpaid hours doing paperwork or pay someone else to do it (most likely both). And if you turn over more than �77k you'll have to do VAT as well. Factor all that into your calculations. Also check what the deal is about claiming expenses, using a company vehicle/mobile/computer etc if you aren't on the payroll.

What's wrong with staying where you are, with all the benefits you get there?

To replace what you've got now you may need to buy a pension, life insurance (your current company probably provides some nice death in service cover), professional indemnity insurance, personal health insurance, private medical insurance... As well as covering holidays, bank holidays, tax, NICs etc and paying yourself a salary.


Now I know where I'm going wrong.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thanks all. Have an accountant appointment on Tuesday. Please keep thoughts coming.

As for staying where I am, Naw.

marigold



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

vegplot wrote:
marigold wrote:
dpack wrote:

with only one employer i would go for paye


This. You need to earn A LOT more to make it worth the hassle of being self-employed or running a limited company if you are basically working for one employer. Either you have to spend unpaid hours doing paperwork or pay someone else to do it (most likely both). And if you turn over more than �77k you'll have to do VAT as well. Factor all that into your calculations. Also check what the deal is about claiming expenses, using a company vehicle/mobile/computer etc if you aren't on the payroll.

What's wrong with staying where you are, with all the benefits you get there?

To replace what you've got now you may need to buy a pension, life insurance (your current company probably provides some nice death in service cover), professional indemnity insurance, personal health insurance, private medical insurance... As well as covering holidays, bank holidays, tax, NICs etc and paying yourself a salary.


Now I know where I'm going wrong.


That's just the money side - quality of life stuff is less easy to quantify. Contentment is worth a lot, happiness is worth more and your health is priceless .

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 12 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I already do self assessment, so tax paperwork is part of life.

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