should it have been more than a caution?

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should it have been more than a caution?
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Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 13 4:37 pm Post subject: should it have been more than a caution?

I am needing clarification on the law about liscenced guns.I have a story I have been told that I am not sure the end reslut is correct.
A liscenced gun holder left his lisceneced gun in a vehicle outside someones house and then he phoned to report the owner of the house for having a gun . There is a lot of griefsome stuff around this and the call was made to cause real mischief for the house owner.
the police firstly said for the house owner to simply return the gun to its owner but as there was a bad intent they really did not wish to see the gun owner.The police did take they gun away and when they house owner asked what the end result was they said they had given him a caution.
I thought this was a major contravening of the liscence law and more action should have been taken, especially as there is a lot of on going problems between them.
Am I right to think more should have been done.
This has nothing to do with me or mine but a very dear friend .
Thankyou

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 13 5:55 pm Post subject:
If I understand your story correctly, a licensed firearms holder left his/her licensed firearm in their own vehicle outside someone else's house, then reported that householder to the Police for supposedly being in possession of a unlicensed firearm, the firearm in the licence holder's car car outside the householder's house. Is that correct? Who got the caution? sg

Nature'sgrafter

Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 527
Location: Sanday , Orkney

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 13 9:46 pm Post subject:
Also what did they get caution for "wasting police time" "inappropriate storage of weapon"

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 9:15 am Post subject:

Sorry for not being clear...
The vehicle ,with Liscened gun inside ,was left outside my friends house (which is up a lane),by the liscened gun owner in the early morning before anyone had woken at my friends house .The vehicle is part of a messy legal settlement and had to be given back. The gun owner then went back to his home and reported my friend for having a gun..
The gun owner was given a caution.

toggle

Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 9:20 am Post subject:
it sounds like the ploice are tying to aviod involving themselves in an existing dispute. would the caution have any effect on the gun owner's licence?

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 9:31 am Post subject:
Thats what I was wondering..I thought you had to be Responsible for your gun at all times, locked cabinet when not in use and all that.It just seems that the rules are unclear here ,and as the gun owner phoned the police to report my friend for having the gun and cause stress then he is surely breaking some rule of competance somewhere?..

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 9:35 am Post subject:
What was the gun and who had the keys to the car? Has your friend spoken to the police about the incident and do you know for sure if the cautioned person still has their guns? It doesn't look like the type of case where you'll get a simple answer here as there's no way of knowing all the facts.

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 9:36 am Post subject:
What was the "licensed gun"? Different laws and rules apply to different types of "gun". sg

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:12 am Post subject:

The police were the people to get in touch with my friends first after the call from the gun owner..my friends were told that they could return the gun to the owner, they said they did not want to touch the gun and were upset the owner was trying to get my friends in trouble. the police took the gun away and my friend heard nothing more . My friend phoned to ask what the result of it all was and the police said that the gun owner had been cautioned....I dont know for what.
I did not realised there were different levels of liscencing, I thought if it was liscenced then that was it..Dont know what sort of gun either.
It just seems that the gun owner is not thinking as a responsible person right now , perhaps it is another case of until something illegally"worse" happens they cannot do anything.
I just thought I would find out as much as I could, they are worried about Making a Fuss and being thought of as paranoid, or escalating the problem by having the gun owner upset more by the questioning

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:15 am Post subject:
As far as I know the gun owner has more than one gun.The keys were left in the vehicle.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:26 am Post subject:

Shot guns that can be held on a shot-gun certificate are treated different to shot guns and other firearms that are held on a firearm certificate. For example, you can lend a simple double barrelled shot gun to someone with a SGC for a limited time IIRC.

Without wishing to take sides or criticise the police, firearms law is ridiculously complicated and not often understood by many people so the police may not have done anything wrong.

If your friends are seriously worried then they could seek legal advice, BASC may also be able to help as they are keen for shooters to be responsible and may wish to investigate.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:29 am Post subject:
I suspect there's quite a lot of this story missing, because otherwise, it sounds like a licensed gun owner is trying to plant a weapon on someone without a license. Can't imagine that kind of behaviour is in line with holding a license.

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:34 am Post subject:

Without knowing what type of "gun" was involved it is not possible to know if any offence was committed.

A licensed firearms holder who knowingly puts a non licensed person in possession of a firearm requiring a licence may commit an offence of causing or procuring that non licensed person to commit an offence of being on possession of a firearm without a licence.

Leaving a firearm insecure in a public place is another issue.

For the Police to suggest that one party returns the "firearm" to the other party would appear to indicate that it was not a firearm that requires a licence. One would hope that in the light of recent issues around firearms and people with troubled minds that the Police have taken all the necessary and appropriate steps.

All sounds like a can of worms.

sg

Ginkotree

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: south west wales

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 10:45 am Post subject:

Nick wrote:

I suspect there's quite a lot of this story missing, because otherwise, it sounds like a licensed gun owner is trying to plant a weapon on someone without a license. Can't imagine that kind of behaviour is in line with holding a license.

That is exactly IT..that is what he has done... my point, regardless of what type of gun, it is his frame of mind that I find worrying .There is a very Horrible Farmer history here that concerns me.
I think I shall perhaps advise them to get hold of the BASC. That is a gentle way of them getting things clarified and hopeful reassurance without stirring things on thier doorsteps.
With stress levels rising in so many areas it is a time to be careful , guns are not the problem, it is the person using it....and it Is Vital we keep things safe so the responsible folk can carry on with thier business.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 13 11:12 am Post subject:

toggle wrote:

would the caution have any effect on the gun owner's licence?

More than likely. A caution will possibly mean he won't be able to hold a licence, at least for a while. It depends on the type of firearm.

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