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Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 16 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yes, fully insulated - walls, bottom & lid. (keeps warm overnight with no power).
Getting someone locally who is a good electrician is proving difficult. I have spoken to Vigo re a spare element (9kw) but its not going to fit our tank.

Ive asked John to draw out a wiring diagram.....

 
dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 16 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ok ......

warmish water in from a hot tap might help

as might a heat exchange coil from a boiler

100 kg or so of "water" and glass does need quite an input to heat it from say 10 c to 70c ,it might be that the elements you are using are not enough to do it quickly

iirc a 100 lt/kg immersion heater takes a couple of hours with a standard element to get it to a bit above bath heat so to get that mass to 70c might take a bit longer

 
Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 16 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well, that been another day of fun and shouting at this house.....

Lets just say the elements in the pasteuriser just arnt doing what they need to....

After clamp testing them they are 19 ohms which is right, but he has wired each one individually to the power via a 16amp plug and they are barely heating, so we know that we need to change the elements....

Can anyone help?

 
Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 16 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well, after stomping off to the shed, he has removed the elements to find that they are 500watt, not the 3kw we ordered, so an email has been sent to the company.
Hopefully, they will restitute this and send the real ones!
What a lot of wasted time!

 
dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 16 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

that would be the problem 1kw isnt much more than a fish tank warmer in a thing of that heat capacity.

i was about to suggest the element from a "tea urn" type thing or a pair of 10 kw kettle elements and a stirrer paddle

 
dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 16 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

thinking about it a small stirrer might help a lot in any sort of waterbath ,especially if every bottle has to be gnt to have reached temp for a given time and none need cooking.

a small motor ,a bit of stainless steel bar with a propeller, a clamp,job done

trusting convection to even the temp throughout the batch could be quite a risk

 
RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 16 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

With the bottles in will you get much flow using a stirrer?

Might be better to use a central heating pump to move the water from one end to the other.

 
Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 16 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

RichardW wrote:
With the bottles in will you get much flow using a stirrer?

Might be better to use a central heating pump to move the water from one end to the other.


No. Pumping would be far better.

 
dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 16 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

they are probably correct about a pump.

intake high/outlet low at opposite ends might work .

 
Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15983

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The water baths we used at college to keep things the same temperature for long periods had pumps as I recall. They also had plastic balls on the top to keep the water from evaporating.

 
Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No pump required - none of the commercial ones even have this.
There is no room really anyway.
Ive spoken to a company that make elements and am waiting (always waiting) for a quote on Monday.
According to them( and the industry) 2 X3KW should heat 90litres in just over an hour which is fast enough.

 
Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Then just pop some thermometers around to make sure you have an even temperature spread. If you've packed it with bottles, you run the risk of uneven temperatures, and failed pasteurisation, with all associated issues.

There's room for a pump. It doesn't have to be internal, just a pipe in and out.

The elements. Can you just use immersion heaters?

 
Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I have thermometers and sensors at both ends and thermometers in the bottles spaced around....
Speaking to the element guy tomorrow....

 
dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i woke up and thought i should mention a residual current circuit breaker ,mains electric and water can be nasty.

 
Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 16 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

got it! Its fine - Im a safety freak....

 
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