Trouble is Rob, I don't think that most rampant vegans have thought it though...
Isn't that pretty much the definition of rampant vegan?
I have come to the conclusion that I cannot make sense of the Vegan philosophy.
I get that they reject exploitation of animals, but I don't believe any of the chickens on this forum are exploited.
I have tried to have a reasoned discussion with some online, but they always get defensive at best, and often downright hostile.
He is an anti-exploitionist. I was trying to get to the bottom of how his logic works but he lost me when he said fox hunting was exploiting the dog & cruelty to the fox, but releasing foxes to catch rabbits was neither exploitation nor cruel. To my mind the motivation behind releasing the animal is the same.
Seconded. But that car is running on coal gas generated by pyrolitic conversion not coal.
The conversion is a part of the car, ergo the car runs on coal.
If you had said the engine does not run on coal, then that would be correct, but in fact the first ever infernal combustion engine ran on coal dust (and was made of wood).
Trouble is Rob, I don't think that most rampant vegans have thought it though...
Isn't that pretty much the definition of rampant vegan?
I have come to the conclusion that I cannot make sense of the Vegan philosophy.
I get that they reject exploitation of animals, but I don't believe any of the chickens on this forum are exploited.
I have tried to have a reasoned discussion with some online, but they always get defensive at best, and often downright hostile.
My point is words like rampant are exclusive.
In the spirit of debate it better to encourage people.
There are no doubt rampant vegans, as there are rampant carnivours who refuse to see the bigger picture & who don't think it through but MRs inference is also tarring anyone who's a vegan.
That is far from fair because many of them are better informed than anyone here.
As to chickens for every happy hen there's a cock that met a (usually very early) demise. & in America very brutal.
The irony is vegans with dogs are feeding them those very same very young cock birds as they go to the pet trade as far as I'm aware.
It's OK, he's told me the secret to managing the land without farmed animals now - glamping.
glampers are well known for their ability to graze wetlands and for their low carbon input wanderings.
As far as I could gather, he was going to both charge them for the accomodation and set them to work looking after the animals that would graze the wetlands. I was skeptical but there's nothing to stop him giving it a go, so we'll wait and see.
a fluffyish version of pamploma and far better telly than robot wars
Tavascarow
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Posts: 8407 Location: South Cornwall
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 8:03 pm Post subject:
I can see them little bovines stampeding through the teepees with Mr Rose in hot pursuit!!!
We used to host holidays for disabled kids & their families on the farm.
B&B stylee.
They loved it.
Watching the connection between a city kid in a wheelchair when my Dads favourite old Guernsey came & said hello was magic.
Over protective parents weren't always so impressed though.
There are people who will pay good money for that genuine experience.
Not everyone wants Disneyland.
It's turns out that there are plenty of people already undercutting me by not bothering with the cows and the grazing. Typical. I can't help thinking of he market would become saturated if we all did it.
the genuine experience with dexter steers if they are protecting the herd or a bit frisky about something or someone is a bit different to a nice jersey matron and the insurance company would probably refuse to play after the first claim and hse investigation.
glamping on a well grazed ing after the beasts have moved might work but mixing "the public" and the moos would be more than rather dangeroos .
im used to them but have a very careful attitude to em out and about or up close and personal, after a few incidents. like the one when rob and me did a sideways split as the beast rushed between us which was quite exciting,the killer kerry was very special and even the nice ones like ilex the bull who i love dearly and often cuddle can have "funny moments" if he thinks a vet is nearby.
It'd be much harder to run for a feeble vegan, too
I'm amazed at the 'ethical' market is swallowing this eat less meat tripe though. One of their biggest angles they use is that farming is 'greedy' by raising animals, completely ignoring the fact that meat is more expensive (and the profit margins much less) than reconstituting the cheapest ingredients available into something that sells for even more markup, 'because it's ethical'.
i dont think a soil degrading ,chemically enhanced and controlled monoculture of makes porridge or peas more ethical than a low(or zero) input ,biodiverse multi purpose landscape and a nice bit of dexter brisket.
maybe im biased but i would be willing to debate it with those that think all meat is bad and all veg is good .
Tavascarow
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Posts: 8407 Location: South Cornwall
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 16 1:34 am Post subject:
But as we have said before (many times) you are comparing worst with best which isn't fair.
A monoculture of peas or soya hundreds of hectares in size is the equivalent to an American feedlot or a bowyers pork factory.
We need to promote the best & most sustainable from all sectors of industry.
Dissing one to promote another doesn't work unless your names Donald Trump & you have millions to burn.
& then not always.
But as we have said before (many times) you are comparing worst with best which isn't fair.
A monoculture of peas or soya hundreds of hectares in size is the equivalent to an American feedlot or a bowyers pork factory.
We need to promote the best & most sustainable from all sectors of industry.
Dissing one to promote another doesn't work unless your names Donald Trump & you have millions to burn.
& then not always.
Are you actually serious? That is exactly the way eat less meat campaign works, they compare the worst animal welfare examples to promote veganism as if all you have to do ditch the meat to live on a cloud and become a saint. It was even started by a veggie to sell his processed ready meals, not fresh wholefoods grown organically.
Tavascarow, my term rampant vegan was used exactly the way Rob and HL suggest. There are sensible vegans who will agree to differ with omnivores and have researched their subject properly, and there are the sort Rob, and sadly I, have come across who have this zealous idea that if we stopped eating animals and exploiting them, the world would be a lovely place where everyone would eat well on vegetables. They haven't though the thing through and tend to be confrontational.
I didn't know a veggie started the eat less meat campaign to sell ready meals Rob. I like some vegetarian meals, including some vegetarian ready made burger things, but they are the ones that contain vegetables not the ones made up to look like real burgers with soya and other unidentifiable muck and lots of flavouring.
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