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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 16 10:44 am Post subject: hinkley c

it seems the subsidy to nuke is likely to be far greater than that withdrawn from solar,wind etc etc .

see the price per gw,which is double the agreed one when the deal to build this plant was signed.

the penalties for shutting it on any grounds less than it is on fire are also rather steep.

i dont recon we are getting a good deal on this one which does not bode well for the three at sellafield or the other couple i cant remember the locations of.

ps we get to pay for the tidy up in 50 yrs time as well as the agreed tidy fee will be nowhere near the cost going by previous examples.

even if they work perfectly for 40 yrs they still will be more expensive than any other option.if they go badly wrong money is not the problem.

how it works if they go a bit wrong is an unknown but i expect there are firewalls between the people involved and the possible liabilities.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 16 12:38 pm Post subject:

The inflation secure guarantee is currently three times that of normal generation & the UK will still be responsible for the decommissioning costs when it's knackered.
The French (EDF) are stalling, wanting to wait a further three years & want assurance the French government will bail them out if it goes over budget.
It's going to cost all the money EDF have to build & could bankrupt them.
So it's going to cost us a lot.
Could cost the French a lot & the Chinese get the profit!!
I'm not an economist but that sounds like madness regardless of whether you're pro or anti.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 16 12:44 pm Post subject:
yep pro or anti nuke the deal stinks for most involved.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 16 2:28 pm Post subject:
Well. If by most you mean most locally, yes. The Chinese seem pretty content and there's a few of them.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 16 3:08 pm Post subject:
ummm yep.they should be quite pleased with the arrangements. there is another plus for them that they are not local( just in case of unpleasantness), iirc they are trying to roll out as many renewable energy plants as poss at home

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16000

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 16 7:52 am Post subject:
Whichever way you look at it the government seem to have less idea of economics than I do, and I know nothing about the theory, only how to stay solvent. Last I heard there were also some concerns about the safety of the structure of the prototype in France. Perhaps by the time they get round to building it we won't be friends with China and the whole deal will be off.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28239
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 16 8:07 am Post subject:
There is no sane theory behind all this, we have economics that are corrupt, ideologically driven, short term and to cap it all those running that system are pretty thick and can't really work off advice. You can't really go to an economic think tank, and ask how you can implement policy so that your favourite party donor gets his kickback

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 16 10:15 am Post subject:

We live about 8 miles from Hinkley. Athough all this fuss has been going on about whether the plant is going ahead or not, for the last three or four years, expansion work has been taking place. The road system around Bridgewater has been upgraded to take the construction traffic, sweeteners have been given to local businesses to supply food etc to workers. I don't understand how all that could already be happening if the contracts hadn't yet been signed off?

john of wessex

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2130

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 16 10:58 pm Post subject:
https://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2987427/labour_needs_a_new_policy_on_hinkley_c_and_nuclear_power.html

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 16 12:09 am Post subject:

and it might get flooded

at current sea level some sites are currently at risk from a combo of astronomical high tides and a storm surge.

as we know from other data sea levels are rising at an accelerating ( but hard to model into the future ) rate due to melt and thermal expansion,the south of the uk is sinking due to post glacial bounce at a steady rate,erosion is another factor

according to these unpublished government figures hinkley is among the 8 proposed new sites at risk of flood during the expected working life /decommissioning period(the existing facilities would also flood if unit c did)

im not sure im glad i looked that up ,perhaps i was less worried before i did.

poor economics and a few cracks in the first one built to this design are two kettles of yummy radioactive fun but to put it where a couple of known and one unquantified problems could fill the thing with sea water seems a rather bad idea.

it didnt do the fukashima units much good to go for a dip and they thought they had allowed for quake n wave days.

ps some of existing ones are also rather riskily placed

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 16 8:31 pm Post subject:
Also permission was given a few months back for fracking under Hinkley and there are some seriously influential water projects being planned very nearby, the Parrett, Cardiff Bay and Severn Barrages. Wish they'd ask us potential victims in Somerset what we think about Hinkley C . . perhaps we could have a referendum?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16000

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 16 7:25 am Post subject:
Sounds like a total lack of joined up thinking again Yummersetter. Hopefully at least the fracking and the power station won't happen.

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 16 7:43 am Post subject:

Chez wrote:

I don't understand how all that could already be happening if the contracts hadn't yet been signed off?

.

Don't Be surprised. There isn't a mr big planning everytinhg, just lots of minor officials scrabbling around to justify spending and their existence. I don't know Bridgwater but I suspect someone's been trying to get some highways funding for a while and has built a case for doing it now. Imagine the uproar if the construction traffic arrived and everyone knew this was coming so why oh why didn't they sort it out before.

Leeds was planning to build a tram network. In anticipation of this as part of our 5 year investment cycles we said to our regulator we'd need to fund moving water mains from under the proposed track route so we wouldn't hold up the tram project. They agreed. We spent a few millions and did a lot of work. The government pulled the plug on the tram funding at a very late stage and it wasn't built. Our activity had nothing to do with the financing of the contract and decisions of the project.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 16 11:53 am Post subject:
Sometimes the dominoes don't always topple.

Mutton

Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 1508

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 16 9:05 pm Post subject:
And if Sheffield Forgemaster hadn't been shut down, we'd still be able to cast our own components for nuclear reactors and not import them. In fact, we'd be selling them to other countries too (well, I hope).

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