himalayan balsam, not all bad

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himalayan balsam, not all bad
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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 16 9:03 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

buzzy wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Many years ago I thought that digesting waste rather than burying it was a good idea, and it seems to have happened. Sadly I have never had the knowledge or been in the right industry to make these things happen, but it is nice to know that they eventually do. Perhaps a small volume one to take round to sites with things like HB, severe ragwort infestations etc. might be a good idea...

There is nothing complicated about methane digestion: you can do it with not much more than a couple of buckets. It's not quick though: takes a week or few before you start getting useable gas.

Are there any plans available for a (reasonably) portable methane digester that includes efficient storage for the gas produced?

There are plenty of plans available until you come to that last requirement. For that, the only one I've found so far is the one in my head...

I can't imagine the amusement is worth the brain cells lost when it comes to huffing methane

A plan you fool, not a storage for methane.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 16 3:48 pm Post subject:
I first came across HB nearly forty years ago. This was when I was mink hunting with The Border Counties Mink hounds and it was on the river banks. I can well understand how it spreads down stream but where I live now, we even have it on the cliff tops.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 6:17 pm Post subject:

There are plans afoot to address a local problem with HB and other invasive weeds so I want to give this idea of digesting them some proper thought.
A digester is fairly easy to build: you can make one out of an IBC or an old barrel or whatever, but it seems to me the harder part is how to mash up the bulk of the biomass and get it in the tank.

I'm thinking that there could be a series of digesters, and one portable plant mashing device, but I'm not aware of any suitable machine...

Any thoughts?

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 6:22 pm Post subject:
A small wood chipper would do the trick I would think...

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 7:51 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

A small wood chipper would do the trick I would think...

For the amount of stuff I think we are talking about, a small chipper would be tedious, and a larger chipper tends to fling stuff about rather vigorously, but if the area is infested anyway, that latter shouldn't matter. Might be worth a try.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 8:23 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

For the amount of stuff I think we are talking about, a small chipper would be tedious, and a larger chipper tends to fling stuff about rather vigorously....

It's not like the material is going to bog down the chipper (though you might worry about where all the juices that are freed will go). I think it would deal with it as fast as you could feed it. So unless you're planning on using machinery to move the material around, I don't think I see the point in a larger chipper.

Just what I would expect.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 9:20 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

For the amount of stuff I think we are talking about, a small chipper would be tedious, and a larger chipper tends to fling stuff about rather vigorously....

Of course, with you being across the pond, you may have a different idea as to what constitutes "small"...

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 16 11:09 pm Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Slim wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

For the amount of stuff I think we are talking about, a small chipper would be tedious, and a larger chipper tends to fling stuff about rather vigorously....

Of course, with you being across the pond, you may have a different idea as to what constitutes "small"...

Just your usual backyard model, something like this: https://youtu.be/-0WSbZyjvX0?t=2m38s

In reality I was thinking something like this: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuD2hp8xSuLDAnpgj-LgZt7W3EQ_xPqRhXWBNffmMtP_j2jrkApw

or maybe even an apple eater from a cidering operation (probably hard to find a volunteer willing to lend theirs however!)

buzzy

Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3708
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 16 12:22 am Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

Slim wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

For the amount of stuff I think we are talking about, a small chipper would be tedious, and a larger chipper tends to fling stuff about rather vigorously....

Of course, with you being across the pond, you may have a different idea as to what constitutes "small"...

Hmmm - chipper on invasive weeds. HB might be all right, but you really really wouldn't want to get people putting Giant Hogweed in one.

Henry

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 16 12:32 pm Post subject:

buzzy wrote:

Hmmm - chipper on invasive weeds. HB might be all right, but you really really wouldn't want to get people putting Giant Hogweed in one.

I was thinking some kind of big macerator...

But back to OP... I was told today that Himalayan balsam seeds make a very nice oil.
The tricky question now is how to harvest them in sensible quantities, and ideally remove the plants at the same time.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 16 7:11 am Post subject:
Probably the same as some other plants. Pull when the plant when the seeds are nearly but not quite ripe so they don't fall out and spread, and put the heads in a large paper bag. Hang up to dry and shake seeds out. Destroy plant. This is the way ragwort is hand pulled and the heads put in a plastic sack. The whole lot is then burnt.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 16 11:15 pm Post subject:
im not sure about oil but the seeds make a fair black pepper substitute. toxicity might be an issue as not much seems to eat any part of the plant so i haven�t tried more than a small amount.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 16 7:16 am Post subject:
That could be because it is toxic, or because, being an alien plant, nothing has developed a taste for it.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 16 12:11 pm Post subject:

naptha quinones, alkaloids, glycosides all get mentions ,

leaves almost certainly toxic by ingestion

i could not find any ld50s for it but several close relatives come out at 3000 to 5000mg/kg in rodents. so a decent sized portion of leaves etc would likely be a bit iffy.

it has a few medicinal uses
heptoprotective ( similar to milk thistle- sylimarin)
anti fungal (see naptha quinones)
ingredient in pile cream
topical for contact dermatitis, bee stings etc etc

i would consider it not food (a few seeds are probably below toxic levels)

the oil might be ok (see castor oil etc ) but i recon i would want to send a sample for full toxicity testing before frying my chips or dressing a salad and as far as public sale i would consider jump many hoops first to be essential.

sorry not to find more but most effort seems to have been directed at killing it rather than looking for uses

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15988

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 16 7:36 am Post subject:
As you say from the amount needed to be ingested by rodents, it doesn't look too toxic, and most plants contain alkaloids etc.

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