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gregotyn

Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2201
Location: Llanfyllin area

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 17 2:57 pm Post subject:
Whereabouts in Wales, was the cattle lady-north or south-I am in mid-east Wales, near England-6 crow flying miles.

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 17 8:14 pm Post subject:
We spent a couple of hours walking among the cattle in two different pastures. Francis, the herd bull, is so calm that we could go into the pasture with him, some cows, and two new calves. There was some forefoot scuffling when we first came in, but he doesn't know me. And yes, he has scurs. Gregotyn, herd owner went to veterinary school in Bristol, and told me she lived in south Wales.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 17 10:34 pm Post subject:
Scur`s,do you mean Horns?

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 17 12:09 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn, scurs are not horns. Horns are attached to the skull. Scurs are not. You can gently tug on a scur and it wobbles a bit.

British White are polled cattle. Poll is dominant to horned. So cattle with Pp genetics are polled / no horns. But even PP can have scurs because it is a different gene.

"Scurs are small horn-like structures that, in young cattle, are usually not attached to the skull. They often look like small horn buds, and can vary in shape and length. In older cattle, they can sometimes attach to the skull like a horn. Having scurs is a separate trait to being polled or having horns."

"To emphasize the difference between scurs and horns, cattle should be classified as smooth-polled, scurred-polled or horned. Remember that all smooth-polled and scurred polled cattle have at least one gene for the polled condition. However, horned cattle can never carry a polled gene."

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 17 9:55 am Post subject:

Yes I know British White are polled,that`s why I asked the question on seeing the horn/scur,i have seen that in cattle that have not been de-horned properly ,young cattle were the buds as you say wobble and in older cattle were the horn structure has grown and become securely attached.
Not heard about naturally occurring scurs before so will look that up,
But have bred cattle for most of my life,and at one time had polled cattle as sucklers Angus x Friesian/polled cross horned,and them crossed with horned still produced polled and their daughters again crossed with horned still produced polled,so I remain sceptical until I read up on this occurrence.

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 17 2:27 pm Post subject:

The genetics go like this, Ty Gwyn.

Polled / no horns is dominant. Cattle with PP or Pp will not have horns

Horned cattle must only have pp genes.

This mean that Pp cattle are not horned but if two with Pp in their genome are bred together the odds are

25% PP = no horns
50% Pp = no horns
25% pp = horns

Without genetic testing you don't know if your polled cattle - cows and bulls - are PP or Pp. And Pp X Pp can produce horned offspring.

Understand that statistics being what they are odds are, well, odd. The coin is flipped anew each time.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 17 10:06 am Post subject:
Genetics also hold colour genes so picking the right colour Sire can raise the percentage of obtaining the preferred colour off spring,this is in Horse`s. Looking at them percentages of No horns against horns,what stands out is where the British White derived from. Over in the US they have American White`s which complicates the situation again.

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 17 3:39 pm Post subject:
A website entry with some pictures British White Cattle

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 17 5:16 pm Post subject:
I`d change the pregnant to 9mth 8 days, 11mths is a Horse Check out the breed standard on this link, https://www.britishwhitecattle.co.uk/the-society/4563203311

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 17 5:19 pm Post subject:
Appreciate your comment, Ty Gwyn. I made the change, will see if Diane has any comment or correction.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 17 8:31 pm Post subject:
Did you notice what was said about the head in the breed standards?

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 17 9:15 pm Post subject:
Yes, Ty Gwyn. In the show ring none of the cattle will have scurs. Perhaps Francis has other characteristics - his calm temperament, perhaps - that make him desirable on a home farm, even with his scurs.

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2585
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 17 10:59 pm Post subject:
British White Cattle in Autumn

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46408
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 17 10:41 am Post subject:
nice moos looking happy is a good way to start my day , thanks.

Fee

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 15922
Location: Earth

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 18 5:58 am Post subject:
They are very lovely!

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