A poor workman...

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A poor workman...
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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 2:31 am Post subject: A poor workman...

Blames his tools they say.
But if he is poor, then he may have bought crap tools and be right to blame them.

This is how it is with me at the moment.
Years ago I had quite a good welding kit, but it got stolen. I had not been using it much so I did not get unduly upset.

More recently (though a fair while ago), during a lean period, I was moved to buy a cheap & nasty gasless MIG. It did the job I required of it well enough.

Today I had cause to do some welding so I pulled out the welder and was not entirely surprised to find that it was not working at all well for a lot of the time, although the occasional stint where it was fine.
Mainly the problem was the wire not feeding like it should.

Nonetheless, I was reminded that if you're not doing it upside down, in a crap space or the pissing rain then it is actually quite nice work, and perhaps I should get back into it.

The dilemma then is on whether to this fix up this kit or to chuck it out and get a better one, or both...
And if to get a new one, then how to choose which?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16006

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 7:01 am Post subject:
If you think you will be doing a lot of welding, buy a better kit. If it might be just the occasional odd light job now and again, fix the existing kit.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 12:14 pm Post subject:
Does it "bring you Joy"?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 2:34 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Does it "bring you Joy"?

Hard to tell really: is one of those things that is so frustrating when it's jamming that in comparison the relief when it works if fairly joyful.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 2:55 pm Post subject:

Dismantle and fettle the feed might restore it to a working but still a gasless mig.

you might have answered your own question by the way you asked it:lol:

imho it is a good tool if it does the job yesterday, today and tomorrow, be that single use and many of them or lifetime friend, and it needs to do it with little frustration or danger.
tools that look like a tool but do not perform are not tools.

the next thing is do i need that tool? well do i?

is it better to get someone with that tool kit to do it rather than get the toolkit and only use it rarely and without full time skills?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 7:21 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

Dismantle and fettle the feed might restore it to a working but still a gasless mig.

It may not be as good as a proper one, but it is a heck of a lot more convenient.
If I end up doing lots of welding then I might reassess, but as it is I cannot justify the faff of having gas bottles.

Quote:

you might have answered your own question by the way you asked it:lol:

One of the reasons that I asked. The trouble with talking to myself is that I presume that I know what I'm going to say so I stop listening...
That's not such a problem when I write it down.

Quote:

is it better to get someone with that tool kit to do it rather than get the toolkit and only use it rarely and without full time skills?

Meh. It's just like falling of a bicycle: it soon comes flooding back.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 9:28 pm Post subject:
My welder is being checked over,but I think its had it,its near on 32yrs old, How do you find these gasless migs compared to an arc welder,as only an arc I`ve used?

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 19 10:44 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

My welder is being checked over,but I think its had it,its near on 32yrs old,
How do you find these gasless migs compared to an arc welder,as only an arc I`ve used?

I've not done a lot of stick welding to compare, but I expect it depends what you're welding. A mig is a lot easier to weld thin sheet.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 1:05 am Post subject:
I`ve seen the gas migs weld all thicknesses,maybe that is the difference between gas and gas lees migs, The arc works on lighter ,material if you turn it down low,its was a 180amp I had,and when turned out done girder work,best I stick with what I know.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 1:37 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I`ve seen the gas migs weld all thicknesses,maybe that is the difference between gas and gas lees migs,

It comes down to the power of the machine, and I think gasless migs only come in the smaller models.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28239
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 10:58 am Post subject:

I see tools divide roughly into three categories

Cheap shit that can't handle anything. Well you can't always tell in advance, but hey let the returns department deal with that.

Adequate and there really is no substitute for the right tools. If it needs a router, just what else are you going to use? Time is also money and the right tools vastly speed up diy.

Stuff I'd love but can't possibly afford or justify.[/list]

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 12:22 pm Post subject:

I'd say the cheap and hardly functional ranging to adequate is a spectrum more than a distinct grouping. I'd also submit that "no substitute for the right tool" is perhaps on a different axis than that first spectrum, as the right tool that does the job better than what you're trying to use can be inexpensive, moderately priced, or expensive, either way it's what will do the job better or best.

Tools I'd love but can't possibly afford may overlap with "the right tool" at times, but may also be in their own universe, as sometimes you really don't need that specialized tool when a ________ suffices, or it would be an absolute joy to use but you don't really need it or won't use it often, or should just rent it, or you could buy three less expensive versions for the same cost....

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 2:38 pm Post subject:

i have some good tools, i have broken a lot of carp.

if it will pay for itself eventually( long life /enough need) get the best you can afford

the best is not always the most expensive, some of my lifelong chisel chums were a couple of pounds at boot sales etc.

with machinery based tools go for industrial rated stuff.
ditto boot/auction sale markdown.

a simple example is a hand held drill for up to say 10 mm in wood and 8 in bricks etc.
a cheap domestic might do the job for its 20 hr life span
a mid range industrial will do the job in lignum vitae or cherry root or basalt and it will out live all of us as a diy now and again tool

plus pro kit is usually far easier to use:lol:
sds chuck or one with a key, you decide.

re welding i dont know much about gas shielded, my thing is O/A welding (+ gas axe)and stick.

i am very out of practice but at one time i could weld cast iron frames back together, i like hot metal but only with good tools.

ed . ps i was a dibnah style chaps goferdoit on a carding house restoration for a year which is where i learned to stick and developed a delight in real tools.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 4:31 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

Cheap shit that can't handle anything. Well you can't always tell in advance, but hey let the returns department deal with that.

It seems to me that most stuff comes in two categories.

Stuff made in China, that some company has imported and put their name on.
Stuff made in China that you buy from a company in China.

Stuff in the first category is subject to some quality control and often comes a lot more expensive.
Stuff in the second carries a bit of a risk, but if you buy through some agency that offers some buyer protection, and test it thoroughly straight away, then the risk is minimised.

Quote:

Adequate and there really is no substitute for the right tools. If it needs a router, just what else are you going to use? Time is also money and the right tools vastly speed up diy.

My attitude is that if it is something new (to me) and I don't know how useful it is going to be, then get a cheap one.
Even if it's crap, you can usually get a good suss of how useful a good one would be and if you break it in the process, then take it back to the shop...
Sometimes the cheap one is perfectly adequate.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 19 5:02 pm Post subject:

if it is crap you cannot learn how useful a good one is only how crap a bad one is.

re the without the known label kit i have a circular saw that is a top end make that i got new for a tenner no label, it is still working after a lot of heavy pro use. even after that the original blade is still good after 20 yrs

i have had £500 kit for £150 no label etc etc.

recently i got a remote for the camera
£30 and in existence direct rather than £50 and there are none from the camera firm
that has an A at the end of the name code on it:lol:
identical kit but not the big name branded version , it works .

copy kit usually does not work

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