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Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 1:04 am Post subject:
Someone forgot to turn off the chocolate milk spigot?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16000

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 7:55 am Post subject:
Any further news on that Ty Gwyn? It is going to take some sorting out by the looks of it.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 11:48 am Post subject:

Nothing much on the news,except the water flow has eased and the colouring has virtually cleared showing the bulk of water has exited and now its the old workings draining.
An older map i`ve seen puts this old shaft at a higher position than the BGS shows,thus shows they worked a higher seam the Upper Maesmelyn/Swansea 2ft seam at 60ft from surface as well as the lower seam at a greater depth,but its this higher seam i would imagine has caused the problem as to the right of these workings is a major fault also near enough on the line of the fault is a brook coming down the valley giving the possibility of the workings breaching the brook,whether at the time of working or over the years since,so more possibilities to investigate.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 1:35 pm Post subject:
9 dead. 1 still missing any rescued was good.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 1:43 pm Post subject:
Yikes, so that wasn't just a gradual emergence. I know you've got layers of history built on layers of history, but the possibility of old mine shafts causing havoc in a populated area is a little hard for me to get my head wrapped around.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 2:06 pm Post subject:

in my home town in west yorks the college relocated, selling the site has been rather difficult as 70ft under it is a large water filled chamber from an unmapped mine C1795-1805 that was abandoned due to water

it is not considered a mining town but has a few near surface and valley side drift seams that were exploited pre 1820 or so, maybe 200 drifts and pits, the coal is not good for engine use so became useless by then and few are properly mapped and recorded

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6614
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 2:30 pm Post subject:
Old wells are sometimes encountered in the woods here, and old cellar holes, but mines are faiy rare (and often known about)

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 4:18 pm Post subject:
The 9 dead was in the Chinese Gold mine collapse Slim.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 7:01 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

The 9 dead was in the Chinese Gold mine collapse Slim.

from the little i know of it , the bang man did his bit to loosen some rock but something bad happened with 20 or so folk the wrong side of the way out

perhaps a bit like the unfortunate chaps in wales a few years ago, full of unexpected water has had mentions as well as blocked in

holes are dangeroos, legacy holes even more so.

ty is the expert but i have needed to learn a few things about holes

re old ones, i used to spend a fair bit of time in penwith, more holes than a swiss cheese
3 of us were having a nice picnic in a pretty but slightly moody place, there was a rumble and with no visible cracking on the surface we ended up about 10 feet closer to the sea ,
later we found that a large hole with a 4 second rock drop to the splash had opened up a couple of hundred yards along the clifftop slope
that was a bit lucky and educational, old mineral mines are interesting

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 21 10:32 pm Post subject:

The Chinese gold mine was a shaft mine working on different levels,bad geology can cause big falls,safety in chinese mines is rather lapse to what is in the UK.

There was nothing unexpected about the water in the Gleision Colliery,it was marked on the plans with a 37m cautionary barrier,no precautionary procedure was in place to drive through and no permission given by mines inspectorate,
The outcome was a big cover up.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 21 1:09 am Post subject:

umm, known, ignored and later hidden is bad

a drop shaft and multi level workings as seemingly in the china tragedy would seem to have built in h and s issues

if we had needed to continue i was heading for a quarry face as a "emergency exit" as we wormed and chambered for living and storage space, down and secure is fine but a back door made sense

in some ways holes are comfortably "safe", in others they can be well nasty

had we needed to continue i recon i had about 50 ft to go sideways from the lowest "chamber" to get to the face(i was going to get close with a tiny hole [air could be useful as well] that could be enlarged quickly if needs be)
the top was hard, with lots of metal and concrete and obstacles physical and human to eviction, but emergency exit was in the plan , even if it needed stealth

an obstructional intent in gritstone with sandstone/sandy bits and fractures is pretty safe compared to hunting coal or minerals for a living

any occupied hole should have at least 2 doors imho, two drops and work between them is a good plan for any mining, money makes that tricky

the gleison thing of ignoring the water out of the "break through " drilling was very wrong, i am an amateur but would not have popped that wall even without the benefit of maps etc that showed where it might be coming from

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 21 1:56 am Post subject:

the gleison thing of ignoring the water out of the "break through " drilling was very wrong,

If permission had been given by the inspectorate drilling was the correct procedure,advance boring in a fan as one advanced through the cautionary barrier,when one contacts water through this procedure,one knows the distance from the water.
Every thing that happened before this incident was totally wrong,management side and i hate to say workmen side,it was just not what one does in them circumstances.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16000

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 21 8:12 am Post subject:

I know there were a lot of questions asked at the time, but it seemed to fade from the news Ty Gwyn. Thank goodness mine safety in the UK, and lack of mines, makes that rare.

Slim, the UK is a small country with lots of people. A lot of towns owe their existence to mines, ports and similar, so there are now a lot of ways the old reasons can come and bite them. For instance, salt has been extracted at a number of towns ending in 'wich' since at least Saxon times; over 1000 years ago, and one at least has serious subsidence because of it. In our woods we have the remains of Bronze Age fields and burial mounds, Saxon boundary ditches and banks and WWII dug outs. This history dates back over 3000 years, and is within about a mile of a village of several thousand people. We always tell anyone cutting in the woods that there is archaeology in every part and to familiarise themselves with it before they trip over it or fall down it.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 21 5:05 pm Post subject:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55817039

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46249
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 21 5:55 pm Post subject:
lots of fe3+ in the photos very nasty

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