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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 6:42 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

I really need to look into solar thermal - particularly as am part way there - have the thermal store with extra coil - it's a matter of understanding what I need and working out who to trust in terms of supplier. And finding a plumber that understands and is willing to work with the fact we have a back boiler also...
mostly though, am frozen by not understanding how to take the next step

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15997

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 6:53 am Post subject:

I didn't realise that the UK market had that much spare capacity. I thought that at peak demand it was pushing it a bit, so if we have a very cold winter we could end up with lack of power, assuming people can afford to heat their homes.

Having been through the rolling power cuts of the 1970s, we have always tried to be as independent as possible. We have a wood fired stove in the lounge that heats that room and keeps the chill off the rest of the house, and has a flat top so can be used for cooking. We also have candles available.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 7:29 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

as pv panels are now more efficient and cost effective, pv to direct immersion heating via wires is probably better than a solar heat exchange system

is there kit that will do immersion heating at panel voltage to avoid inverter losses etc?
i am very out of date on such kit

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 8:56 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

I wouldn't bother with solar thermal, it needs maintenance. PV on the other hand can be used to heat your cylinder via the immersion coil and when you can afford it also feed into a battery

interesting. making my own electric would probably be more useful than hot water - as I do already have the means to make that via the back boiler. Still the question of whether I would stay living here long enough to make it financially sensible.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 8:59 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Having been through the rolling power cuts of the 1970s, we have always tried to be as independent as possible. We have a wood fired stove in the lounge that heats that room and keeps the chill off the rest of the house, and has a flat top so can be used for cooking. We also have candles available.

yes, this is why we put in the wood fired esse. I have a little woodburner in the living room too that I haven't used in ages, but am getting refurbished as I want to future proof as much as possible.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 10:47 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

Still the question of whether I would stay living here long enough to make it financially sensible.

Probably not I guess, but it's not just the economics ...

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 10:47 am Post subject:

my solar is low voltage, the folding panel and battery banks+ assorted aaa aa rechargeable+lots of plugs and wires to fit assorted things+some small control gear stuff+ a good meter and a few tools

the cb and gps and a few lights and stuff all go in a smallish package
the whole thing is under 8kg so ideal for powercuts or travels with a bike

it can run phones, gps, small radio/s 24/7 on an average days harvest

a full pair of batteries would run a "frugal" laptop or tablet for several hours

i can charge things direct from the panel or from the banks with control gear to ensure a "safe" supply for delicate stuff

to harvest enough for the electric bikes would need the sort of area folk have on a large camper van

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 22 12:41 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

Still the question of whether I would stay living here long enough to make it financially sensible.

Probably not I guess, but it's not just the economics ...

this is very true.

TsNeal

Joined: 03 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
Location: Yeovil

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 22 9:00 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

You are correct. Generating capacity at 77GW and peak demand in the winter can be as much as 50gW - that still leaves a healthy spare capacity.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-idUSKBN2BU3K2

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 22 5:24 am Post subject:

if i have an income and use a bank and have savings i may have enough money but no change for the bus

plenty of supply is good, having enough available where it is required on a second by second scale is more problematic

the use of the grid as a buffer/"battery" and delivery vector has been achieved one piece at a time and the resulting tangle is a bit messy,
it usually works, at times bits are on the cusp of failure

there is several g from hornsea one and two, clean and remarkably cheaper than any other supply of a similar size
that is good and useful
to make best use of such things requires storage and or distribution, as the supply is unlikely to match that minute's locations or demands

make it, buffer/battery it "on site", grid the buffer/batteries? that might work

iirc there is a project in aus doing that at regional scale using wind or pv or both( not sure of the supply details) i am now (i think there may be a musky battery version somewhere as well)

neat

plenty of sunshine, but leccy only during daylight would be a bit tricky to live around

pv> h2>leccy has losses at each > but there is harvest enough to power an effective system

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28239
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 22 6:41 am Post subject:

TsNeal wrote:

[

You are correct. Generating capacity at 77GW and peak demand in the winter can be as much as 50gW - that still leaves a healthy spare capacity.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-idUSKBN2BU3K2

Useful figure, I get involved in EV discussions where trolls constantly claim grids can't take it. Apparent in England we already have black outs and a state of emergency has been declared

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15997

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 22 7:52 am Post subject:

As you say Dpack, there are losses at each stage, including transmission. The difficulty with electricity generation using wind or solar power is storage, so some method such as conversion to hydrogen, filling hydro electric dams etc is needed to allow use at night.

Not sure where the trolls get the massive power cuts in the UK. At least electricity generation seems to have been allowed to work as a reasonable unit rather than having lots of different generators answerable to nobody like the railways, water etc.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 22 12:07 pm Post subject:

green hydrogen is good in a few ways, energy storage, portable(if moody) fuel, metal refining, chemical feedstock etc

as tested at semi tech scale, it has potential until we find better stuff

having worked with it, i have a number of going cold moments about the practicalities but folk don't often blow up the fossil rig/plant/chem factory/power station. plant scale is probably fairly safe, harry down the garage sorting the gas lines to the fuel cell of your H2/leccy hybrid car might have a larger human factor

ps H2 diffuses through metal and makes many metals brittle as it does it, that was an exciting morning

at least H2 has less "random" chemistry than some things and tends to leave the room rather than settle down for a snooze until awakened

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15997

Posted: Sat Sep 10, 22 3:53 pm Post subject:

Another problem I have found with it is that the flame is hard to see. We used it to on wire bonders to make a 'ball' on the end of gold wire, and the flame was invisible. I ended up with singed hair on my little finger all the time I was using that. Agree that playing with it in garages unless pretty well both fool and engineer proof (two completely different things) might be rather problematical.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28239
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 22 6:49 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Not sure where the trolls get the massive power cuts in the UK. At least electricity generation seems to have been allowed to work as a reasonable unit rather than having lots of different generators answerable to nobody like the railways, water etc.

The Trolls exaggerate every bit of rubbish they see and repost it. Bit of a vicious cycle.
So for example you can't recharge EVs in California comes from a request to try and avoid using any big appliance during a 4 hour peak on one particular day.

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