Why not have devices with a solar mode?

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Why not have devices with a solar mode?
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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Sat May 07, 22 4:48 pm Post subject:
can the change be monetised?

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28238
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun May 08, 22 6:11 am Post subject:
Well basically yes, people would buy for that feature. I certainly would look for it, if I had to replace any white goods. Something that was able to use less peak energy would save 40p an hour on running costs a lot of the time.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Sun May 08, 22 9:59 am Post subject:

perhaps what is needed is energy storage that concentrates energy, some call them batteries, but batteries can have many forms, and appliances that have lower peak loads and are more efficient

the details should be fairly simple, there never was such a thing as cheap energy, there are ways to get the most from the inevitable costs

watching folk trying to use fire demonstrates that basic truth and the ways to think for the best

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Sun May 08, 22 10:04 am Post subject:
another way to look at it is do i need that kettle to boil in 2 mins or would 6 mins be just as good?

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue May 10, 22 3:49 pm Post subject:

I take it your system isn't net metered? That's the easiest fix. It doesn't matter when you use power, your production is counted against your usage. UPS and downs across the grid are managed at scale.

There are schemes to have your usage better match your production, and it works best with American style hot water tanks where you essentially have a giant thermal battery: https://www.popsci.com/need-high-power-home-battery-use-your-water-heater/

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue May 10, 22 4:04 pm Post subject:
Have a look around, there's more than one way to skin a cat https://fullycharged.show/a-z/sunamp-2/ These folks appear to be working on software to get smart appliances to talk to solar: https://fullycharged.show/a-z/eo-charging/ Also back to hot water: https://fullycharged.show/episodes/mixergy-hot-water-tank/

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Wed May 11, 22 6:24 am Post subject:

It is possible to get tanks that take a solar heater as well as conventional ones; we were looking at it some years ago, and is is certainly a good way to get hot water.

The problem remains about electricity for devices such as kettles, cooking, lighting etc. I am not sure what the situation is here at present about selling to the grid. It is possible, but not sure about the financial side of it. I have a feeling they don't pay as much as they charge for getting it at off solar peak times.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Wed May 11, 22 7:56 am Post subject:

2 coil and electric immersion heater element in the tank+valves, pipes, energy things and control gear is very plausible as it is well tested as a system

thermal solar for water is pretty good even in uk weather, over time it is the fastest pay back at the mo for small scale

the 3 option rig gives the opportunity to use the cheapest/ "greenest" available at any time, and then to use that as required

from solar thermal, from solar pv or from a fuel boiler into a single and fairly simple system works

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed May 11, 22 9:53 am Post subject:

I wasn't thinking of direct solar thermal, but thermal energy as a store of pv energy.
Over here, the economics of direct solar thermal vs additional pv to power a more efficient heat pump water heater have suggested it's better to just squeeze in an extra solar panel somewhere then to go through the rigamarole of trying to plumb in solar thermal, etc. This was explained to me by my engineer cousin as he was asking me to house sit for his house that had evacuated tubes for incredibly efficient solar thermal for hot water. His system put out too much hot water to leave the house unattended in the summer, but it was already clear back then, over ten years ago that swapping to a heat pump water heater and adding another solar panel (at least with our net metering laws) was going to provide a better financial return on investment, and be more flexible (those impressive solar thermal rigs are not necessarily user friendly for the general population, panels and heat pump water heaters can largely be forgotten about).

The economics of $/watt power potential of solar panels have only further pushed this in the decade that has followed. Evacuated tubes aren't getting much cheaper, but panels sure have been, and they've much more generating potential per area than they had ten years ago.

Seems to me, folks should be pushing for net metering laws over there. Grid as battery is quite convenient except in power outages

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15985

Posted: Thu May 12, 22 6:12 am Post subject:
Certainly in the past the solar water heating was a very good idea. As you say Slim, solar energy production has come on very fast and now may be a better bet. Have not looked at the economics of it lately, but if certain problems can be overcome, we have a very suitable roof for solar cells.

waerloga

Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Posts: 9

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 22 9:12 pm Post subject:
There is one readily available low-power device; the camping kettle, it uses about 800 watts, you just have to wait a little longer for your cup of tea.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28238
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 22 6:17 am Post subject:
Interesting seeing some that are 600 watts. Could be a good fit here.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46235
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 22 8:00 am Post subject:

mini fan heater , 700w 13A flat pin plug direct into socket

sold as under desk heater, which is fine if the plugs are in a silly place under the desk

surprisingly effective in a small space, perhaps not as good as an old stack pooter with a clocked chip and several fans for space heating:lol:

my first graphics/video rendering pooter put out about 1.25KW as heat

this one would barely germinate cress

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 22 10:14 am Post subject:

What I don't understand about this kind of problem is why they don't make it easier to get the relevant information out of the meter.
Unless they do, and the people I have spoken to haven't tried very hard.

If there's a digital output of the amount of power being generated and how much is being used, then it should be fairly straightforward to have an electronic control system to turn the heat up (or whatever) when there is surplus power generation.

It should be easy, and supplied as standard, but apparently it isn't.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6612
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 22 10:39 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Have a look around, there's more than one way to skin a cat
https://fullycharged.show/a-z/sunamp-2/
These folks appear to be working on software to get smart appliances to talk to solar: https://fullycharged.show/a-z/eo-charging/
Also back to hot water: https://fullycharged.show/episodes/mixergy-hot-water-tank/

I think there are some efforts to get the appliances to talk to the PV panels. I imagine there's more than these though

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