Micro wind turbine

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Micro wind turbine

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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 22 7:19 pm Post subject: Micro wind turbine
Does anyone here have a little wind turbine installed at all? Thinking of getting something in the New year and curious to know anyone's real life experience with one.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8955
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 22 9:11 pm Post subject:
We haven't, but saw one last week in a small town in NZ. Vertical, looks like a slightly opened toilet roll centre...with the spiral shape. I think that top section taking the wind could have been a metre tall (up on a tall pole to catch the wind)..so not very big, and quiet..but it did look to be taking what wind there was and using it very efficiently .

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 22 3:47 am Post subject:

home electric is a splendid idea
getting a system that works for a reasonable cost with a reasonable break even point to lifespan ratio is important

there are a variety of wind based systems

there are a huge variety of wind conditions, by which i mean not only the windyness that day but the amount of turbulance from a combo of wind speed, wind direction and the landscape

unless you have a huge open flatish landscape the propeller bladed sort are problematic as they cannot adjust well to swirly wind and gustyness

if there are trees, buildings and assorted slopes etc the vertical rotor type are thought better, such as the type gz mentioned

size matters, it needs small enough to fit the landscape and be big enough to be worth the effort and expense
location matters, not just for the wind quality but for ease of transfer from generator to point of use, long wires eat energy
wind is intermittent, so deciding on storage style and use should be planned in
in a domestic setting with a few kw at max harvest grid storage might not be the best option, battery storage has become more practical and hot water options are fairly good

i do not have the landscape at the mo but have followed microgeneration stuff for many decades and have played scrapheap challenge with wind a few times

re cost effectiveness compared to pv , heat pumps etc in a domestic setting i have no idea
re style if there are trees, buildings, multiple slopes etc a propeller type will be a nightmare, the rotor type will be better but may still struggle in some conditions

running too fast can be worse than running too slowly, what ever style it needs a governor(centrifugal clutch) to prevent burn out in high winds

from scrap heap challenge stuff, what feels like a strong and steady wind is probably too unsteady and not strong enough to be useful with small scale kit

as with all micro generation, energy storage, energy conversion and energy transfer are usually the tricky bits, making leccy is fairly easy making the type of leccy you need when needed and getting it where you need it often isnt.

for a domestic setting i would probably consider pv rather than wind
for wind a rotor based system will probably be the best option

the issues of energy harvest, storage, transfer, conversion etc apply to both

cost-effectiveness ie outlay and payback time vs life span needs to be a major criterium
as does "will this thing harvest enough energy in the place i can put it to make the system effective ?"

these are all tricky as the folk who might know how such things apply to your needs will be trying to sell you their kit
also "typical" or "tested" outputs etc will be different for every site

there are good reasons to put huge ones in huge flat places and small ones in lumpy places seem rare

jema
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28239
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 22 7:24 am Post subject:
My recollection was that 15 years ago home turbines were regarded as a joke, liable to break long before any pay back. Bigger is always better for turbines, but tech has probably improved.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8955
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 22 8:18 am Post subject:
We have see quite a few supermarket car park lights run by small rotor wind turbines. Usually New World, in NZ. Quite unobtrusive...a green "brownie points" earner..but they seem to work ok..some roadworks traffic lights have both that and pv panel

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 22 8:23 am Post subject:
Sounds a good idea Gz. Having just got back from Cornwall we were struck by the amount of onshore wind generation there. We have very little, but a lot of solar.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 22 10:07 am Post subject:

gz wrote:

We haven't, but saw one last week in a small town in NZ.
Vertical, looks like a slightly opened toilet roll centre...with the spiral shape.

I think that top section taking the wind could have been a metre tall (up on a tall pole to catch the wind)..so not very big, and quiet..but it did look to be taking what wind there was and using it very efficiently .

Thanks GZ, I've seen them advertised and they do seem to be a quieter design.

I know much of the theory, and I know planning would be a problem, but after real world experience as I often find that doesn't match up with often repeated theory.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 22 2:32 pm Post subject:
Hopefully planners should be more open to the idea than when I was trying to install one.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 22 9:27 am Post subject:
old turbine tech that worked a few lights rather well im not convinced it would harvest much compared to a similar size one with modern magnets and engineering but as an early scrapheap challenge it is magnificent proof of principles, wind energy can be turned into leccy and ignorant peasants can be convinced(by lamp oil sellers?) that the devil would invent decent street lights to torment them

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 22 10:09 am Post subject:
thinking about 19th c leccy tech, his turbine and the early leccy cars were classmates, both of which needed 21st c magnets and batteries for practical use

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 22 11:44 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Hopefully planners should be more open to the idea than when I was trying to install one.

Not round here, they are still in the 1970s. I had a long chat with our green councillor a couple of years back about getting access to council services without having to drive everywhere and he just kept saying buy a car.

I would risk going ahead without planning and seeing what happens. Seems to be the way many people do things round here anyway.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 22 5:42 pm Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I would risk going ahead without planning and seeing what happens. Seems to be the way many people do things round here anyway.

You're probably right, I can't imagine you're going to go with anything that'll impact anyone else anyway

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 22 6:49 pm Post subject:

We don't have any neighbours who would be affected and I hate noise so wouldn't tolerate that. However, that doesn't stop people who like to complain from complaining. A friend had problems getting permission for a poly tunnel, it was too visible from the road. The fact that a large farm just up the road had built a huge new concrete barn to house cattle right next to the road wasn't problem. I could go on...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 22 3:59 pm Post subject:
It is a bit like that, and of course we've had similar issues here

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 22 9:12 pm Post subject:

re the noise thing, such things matter

all machines make noise, good ones used well are tolerable and not worrying

when seeking kit, listen to a similar kit running in real conditions

i hate daft noise power tools and machines unless they are very cheap and useful for rare and short run times
owt that is constant needs to be polite as to the type of sounds it makes for those near it and the neighbours

noise means the thing is not built as well as it could be, and/or it is resonating with the world in some way

with a decent machine, environmental resonance or a need for maintenance are usually the main causes of "noise"

see and listen to some working, talk to their owners and talk to the electro mechanical engineering folk who do that scale of kit seems like a place to start

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