natural indigo ???????? anyone used it?

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natural indigo ???????? anyone used it?

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 23 4:06 pm Post subject: natural indigo ???????? anyone used it?

this is for paper, but cloth principles apply to the chemistry

i am not an indigo virgin, the artificial version i could make and use with a rather "unnatural" dye lake and mordant recipe on cloth

i have dipped paper in a bucket of a "natural" mix, it arrived as a stinking bucket so i am unsure of the lake or best mordant recipe, it involved stale urine in making the lake and working outside at the dipping and airing stage

i have good quality indigo leaf and access to assorted substances, kit etc and a decent grasp of rough chemistry

the online how to stuff was less than useful, contradictory, chemically challenged etc

any suggestions?
some of the recipes seemed over complex and/or required problematic ingredients

tis small scale, ten sheets of mid wt cotton paper, less than A4 size
an alkali and deoxygenated lake with the dye dissolved
damp or damp with mordant paper
dip air dip air (rpt), wash and dry, flatten

it should be easy

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 23 5:38 pm Post subject:
DM Sally in Wales. She'll know.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 23 5:44 pm Post subject:
I have followed Sally's instructions for dyeing with woad, following an article she published here - perhaps the same principle applies? I was dyeing wool not paper though. Last edited by Nicky cigreen on Sun Feb 12, 23 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9887
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 23 5:48 pm Post subject:
here is Sally's article

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 23 7:22 am Post subject:
thanks folks

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 23 7:42 am Post subject:
sorted , use like woad thanks folks

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 23 8:29 am Post subject:
I have died with woad, but we used cloudy ammonia and no other chemicals. If you want to know more I can look up the method, but if you have managed it I won't bother.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 23 1:53 pm Post subject:

i was going to try a mini test with stale urine, a bottle of ammonia is rather more appealing

ammonia should act as a reducing agent to grab dissolved oxygen as well as alkali to sort the pH

the washing soda recipe seemed like a good way to destroy my paper and some of the lake reducing agents are problematic for less than a pallet purchase

i can do a propanol extraction to get the dye stuff out of the plant material and then add that to an ammoniacal and physically deoxygenated dye lake

to avoid a long fermentation and peeing in a tub as it evaporates is rather nice, i have a feeling that is what was done with the stuff i met at art school

many thanks

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 23 4:27 pm Post subject:

ammonia aq(household whatever that means

) ordered and on the way
not something even the local go to for everything store had

alum ordered etc

re alum there was a lot of scope for price gouging on what is a fairly basic chemical

in a fancy packet or sold for "crafts" it is daft prices
this is traditional stuff, ie tech grade which is ideal, especially if the "stain" is fe2+ related

alum might make pickles crispy but is it a good idea?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 23 8:41 am Post subject:
I don't think you need it for indigo, but good mordant for other things as it is about the most innocuous. I find it useful if dyeing with things like onion skins. As you say, not easy to get these days.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46247
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 23 1:15 pm Post subject:

as it is cotton, made into paper and slightly dyed with something pale buff colour, soaking it in alum mordant seems like a decent idea to give maximum uptake

it might not help, but it won't harm(i hope)

the rubber gloves are in the post, i was less colourful than some at ici but all of us had moments of glory, mine were mostly microdroplets that reacted with skin protein just as well as it did the dye intermediate being tested on a filterpaper, the curse of the red spots was rife for a few weeks

a very fetching scarlet and better than the half orange half purple bilateral face i saw on the bus home one day

regardless of rainbow skin, use of ppe as required is always wise

this will be an outdoor job for splashes and fumes

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15998

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 23 8:52 am Post subject:

I have only dyed wool, and I know cotton is not so easy. I suggest trying some cotton rag with and without alum before committing to your paper. Agree about ppe. I was working completely outside, and we were mainly using sticks to stir and lift work pieces.

The main job I did which could have resulted in colourful hands was when I was screen printing using epoxy paint. It was used for marking up printed circuit boards and I had to mix it and then screen print it onto the boards.

When I have been working with birch my hands get rather brown and smell rather nice too as I think there is a fragrant waxy covering on the fine stems.

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