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gz



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8924
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 23 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hi from Ayrshire in SouthWest Scotland ๐Ÿ™‚

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28235
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 23 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Good to have you onboard.

KingOfPlants



Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 23 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thank you all for such a warm welcome

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45672
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 23 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hello

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15972

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 23 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Welcome. We don't have animals and probably never will, but do grow vegetables and have a woods where we do firewood, charcoal and a few other woodland related crafts.

Shan



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 23 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hi and welcome! We used to have a smallholding in Wales but we are currently hopping between Portugal and Bristol. Trying to do some veg amongst our flower beds in Portugal because it would feel like such a wasted year if we didn't. Hopefully, if things pan out as we would like, we will be able to dedicate some proper time to veg growing come the end of the year.

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 23 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm actually a bit envious of you being at the start of the smallholding adventure.

I'm on the other side of it, my life has changed and I have had to change with it, but have kept sheep and pigs, turkeys and ducks, and chickens. Tried stuff, failed at stuff, succeeded at stuff, learnt and enjoyed the experience.
Now I am just growing veg and trying to be self sufficient in firewood and garden water.
But I say if you can, go for it

KingOfPlants



Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 23 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Shan wrote:
Hi and welcome! We used to have a smallholding in Wales but we are currently hopping between Portugal and Bristol. Trying to do some veg amongst our flower beds in Portugal because it would feel like such a wasted year if we didn't. Hopefully, if things pan out as we would like, we will be able to dedicate some proper time to veg growing come the end of the year.


With the rainy weather expected over the next week hopping to Portugal seems like a good idea!

Mistress Rose wrote:
Welcome. We don't have animals and probably never will, but do grow vegetables and have a woods where we do firewood, charcoal and a few other woodland related crafts.


That's amazing. Woodlands are such a peaceful and beautiful place. I'm a little envious for sure.

Nicky cigreen wrote:
I'm actually a bit envious of you being at the start of the smallholding adventure.

I'm on the other side of it, my life has changed and I have had to change with it, but have kept sheep and pigs, turkeys and ducks, and chickens. Tried stuff, failed at stuff, succeeded at stuff, learnt and enjoyed the experience.
Now I am just growing veg and trying to be self sufficient in firewood and garden water.
But I say if you can, go for it


Woah, that's quite a group of animals you had. That's a very similar dream to where I'm hoping to be in a few years. I do have some experience raising animals and miss it a lot. I just need to get more land to make some of the larger animals possible now, I can't have pigs and sheep in the garden

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46218
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 23 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

pigs are delightful, well most of them (and they can be tamed or eaten youngish), the worst thing about pigs is the line between farm animal and member of the family animal can be easy to cross and impossible to recross for a fry up

ovinotechniphobia is a very reasonable response to experience of sheep, when they are not being psychopathic or "difficult" they are looking for unusual and interesting ways to die

co grazing sheep with good moos improves ยฃper acre and the soil/flora of the pasture, it has a huge downside in sheep wrangling/nursing/stock disposal etc
there are a few places where sheep seem to be able to thrive with minimum input(harvest with a rifle) and they maintain that type of landscape

others will disagree, a few even like sheep

the hatred sheep have for me as an individual is powerful, they loathe and despise me even when they have never met me before, much like mosquitos go for some folk sheep are even more committed to hating me

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 23 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I suspect cows are a lot easier than sheep. But you do need more land for cows. I have 2 acres.. and was able to have all those animals comfortably, but it wasn't enough for cows.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46218
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 23 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

moos have a lot of charm, but they are big to handle, they can be difficult or surprised, they can be clumsy or overenthusiastic etc, if they get scared they can be very active or uncooperative

they are not cheap(if they are, they will probably be very expensive)

the paperwork is less than simple

most need winter shelter

you need to have food all year, ie you need to buy or grow for winter fodder as well as happy pasture months

the land needs to suit moos, you still need to pick moos that will do best on a specific land and your husbandry regime

you need good fences and good neighbours

is there a footpath? the public are less than moo wise even if they live near moos

some moos are more docile than others
a few are downright dangerous even if you know why they are upset and you are really not guilty of what has upset them

no moo is safe, you can minimize the risks but carelessness costs lives

can you run, jump ,dodge? can you wrestle huge critters? do you want to at very short notice when you did not want to and still laugh about it?

have you got access to moo related transport? aim for zero miles but...
is there a decent local slaughterman/butcher? no would be a no moos for me

moo lore and handling can be learnt, learning will have many tense moments

having one is unkind, they need moo chums, a few is as much work as a few dozen

moos are nice, i lived with them for a few years and learnt as much as i could, including bull charming and a few handling skills as well as the welfare stuff

you need to be fit and sensibly brave, my first time in a tight pen with a few dozen of them was "different" and i am often quite bold

sooner or later there will be the first time something needs doing and it will scare you, or something will be a surprise you had no idea was possible

i would call my fistfight with the killerkerry a draw, neither of us enjoyed it, however i can claim to have stopped a moo charge with a palm strike
the newtonian physics of that was rather interesting and my backflip in the air and into a low kick position in the mud was a classic, i did have stress fractures to my arm and the moo had a headache


having moos can be interesting, happy excited highland boys, with long horns, scampering around a feeder while you try to open the big bale of lovely hay or roll out another layer of deep bedding is a game best played carefully
swerving a horn tip at knee ht from behind while avoiding the slower hoofy one on the inside of the breakfast spiral is the sort of thing that got glazed onto minoan vases

they kick, not as bad as horses, it hurts though
they are more likely to hurt you by accident
milk has issues for me unless 'tis as much as the calf needs and i will have what is left over
that said, milking is so calm the moral dilemma of doing a herod can get absorbed in a happy moo mist of warm flank and schhss bucket

i had been around moos all my life and even helped out a few times
living with and day to day wrangling of moos is very different and something that should not be done without consideration

hard to go too badly wrong with chooks and pigs, moos are nice, but they do have a few potential issues and they are high maintenance in one or more ways

moo margins are pretty tight if they need to earn their effort

KingOfPlants



Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 23 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
moos have a lot of charm, but they are big to handle, they can be difficult or surprised, they can be clumsy or overenthusiastic etc, if they get scared they can be very active or uncooperative


I think you have just said every reason why sheep are so much better for small scale

From my (limited) experience with cows it's often not the more difficult/angry cows that are dangerous because you are generally much more cautious around them. It's the friendly cows that seem to hurt their owners, not on purpose but they can be like giant overexcited dogs which can lead to them headbutting you, kicking, knocking ect by accident. I love cows so much but really do think they are best suited for people who have more experience and larger amounts of land.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46218
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 23 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

sheep are a bit better than over Niagara Falls in a barrel full of wasps

delightful on a plate, live not for me

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9881
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 23 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I like sheep, and I miss having them - but someone else sheep are now grazing my land so best of both worlds.. i enjoy them without the responsibility.

I also enjoy wool and all the crafts - spinning, knitting, felting dyeing that come with it.

And I like mutton, but is strangely hard to get hold of.

lots of people will have lots of advice, but the adventure is finding out for yourself what you do and don't enjoy.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15972

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 23 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I don't have experience of handling sheep, but on the whole I like them, but some breeds can be a bit difficult. Soay and Manx Loaghtan spring to mind as difficult but Shetlands on the whole are well behaved. I don't really know any modern breeds well. Like you Nicky, I love working with wool and am currently spinning a really lovely fleece. I usually knit with wool these days, but Shetland wool weaves beautifully too.

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