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Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 11:23 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I spose a raised bed is like foundations so 3:1 then.

Anyone used lime in the mix, 6:1:1?

You offering to supply some?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 11:30 am Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I spose a raised bed is like foundations so 3:1 then.

Anyone used lime in the mix, 6:1:1?

You offering to supply some?

I would have to burn the chalk to make the lime. I've used building lime and it makes the mortar easier to work with and, I gather, the walls better able to cope with slight movement.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 6:43 pm Post subject:

i would use 6:1 good bricklaying sand and portland cement as it has good frost resistance .lime is unneccessary with that mix for blocklaying outside and feb or washing up liquid can make the mortar far too plastic (ie the wall squashes out its mortar with its own weight as you try to lay blocks )cut most of your halves (or quints ) before you mix so as to get a through run of laying without stopping to re start the 12" disc saw .careful with them they can bite .
string and level make tradesmen good .practice makes them fast so smallish mixes and take your time . mortar is only really at its best for about half an hour .
there are really good "systems" that make the job a bit like lego but i think they are quite dear .
put ties in especially the corners .
and remember to wet your blocks and to wet down( or cover in wet sacking ) your walls for a week or two . cement mortar only sets properly when it is wet ,if it drys before it sets it is just dirty sand .
my favourite tip is "make sure someone knows how to mix good mortar "
for shovel mixing ,on a plastic spot or 8x4 board ;
thouroughly dry mix the sand and cement then add water (with maybe a drop of washing up liquid per bucket) to a hole in the middle of the heap and then wet mixing by circling the heap ,turning a few shovelfuls into the wet crater and then cutting them until i have been round the heap ,then turning and shaking out for another circle and then in again .
add more water during this process until a "high peak "is left when your tool leaves the mix .( practice )
repeat until mixed .
have a brew .(5 mins )
cut, turn and cut again
then "knock up " to remove the air bubbles,( push it about on a board )
now its ready .
wet cement is quite caustic so barrier creme and good h n s practice is worthwhile . keep an eyewash bottle handy .
i love the smell of wet mortar in the mornings , it smells of , nearly breakfast time

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 6:45 pm Post subject:

Jus spent the past week doing just that - and for above ground it's 5:1 sand:cement with a slosh of Feb/Fairy as a plasticiser.
Don't buy 'instant mortar' - for one, it's a rip'off, and for two, cement has a fairly short shelf-life (it's to do with the chromium salts used as a catalyst - nasty things!) and ready-made stuff just isn't as strong because it's designed to sit on the shelf of the DIY warehouse for longer.
How many blocks are you planning to lay?

Though, of course, I would rather use lime - far greener, easier to use and less nasty on the skin.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 6:45 pm Post subject:
if you need to use a hurdy gurdy mixer it is a different method .

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 7:32 pm Post subject:
Oh, only a fw dozen blocks, and I've a mixer on hand so that I don't have to get too dirty or tired. I'm a pretend brickie, me, not the real thing. They are a means to an end (herbs).

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Thu May 11, 06 9:00 pm Post subject:

A few dozen? One back of castle OPC shouldn't cost more than a couple of quid and will make enough mix for a couple of dozen, so a tenner's worth of cement will be enough for all your needs.
As for sand, order some soft builder's sand from your local builder's merchant. Again, a tenner's worth will give you enough to re-enact Beau Geste in your veg patch and provide every neighbourhood cat with a deluxe crapping area for the next year.
And when it comes to mixing, you can't mix too much. The aim isn't just to get the cement, sand and water amalgamated; it's to get a 'fluffy' mix that whispers when you shovel it rather than splats (if that makes any sense at all). A dash of Feb or detergent will make this very much easier.

monkey1973

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 683
Location: Bonnie scotland

Posted: Fri May 12, 06 7:16 am Post subject:
If I ever spotted washing up liquid bottles on a building site the brick/blockwork would be instantly condemned

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Fri May 12, 06 7:43 am Post subject:

monkey1973 wrote:

If I ever spotted washing up liquid bottles on a building site the brick/blockwork would be instantly condemned

What, even if it was Ecover?

monkey1973

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 683
Location: Bonnie scotland

Posted: Fri May 12, 06 7:45 am Post subject:

ian1

Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 314
Location: essex

Posted: Fri May 12, 06 4:24 pm Post subject:
iirc its to do with the size of bubbles , fairy would be to big making the morter weak .

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Fri May 12, 06 4:31 pm Post subject:
so, if brickies have a bottle of washing up liquid its wrong?? So that$ swhy their teamugs always look so bad!

jamsam

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: erm....i dont know, its dark.

Posted: Sat May 13, 06 3:10 pm Post subject:

sally_in_wales wrote:

nickhowe wrote:

Sally, what's your excuse now?

...

Is knitting frenzy an excuse? Mostly I need to find a week that I can take off and simultaneously bribe a few friends to come play by offering vast amounts of food and homebrew! (any volunteers?)

where abouts?? i need to learn more self bulid stuff for this place, it feels like a self build even though some idiot built it 300 years ago...

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Sat May 13, 06 3:19 pm Post subject:
If it wasn't for this pesky rain, I'd have it done by now, I tells ya. Honest.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Sun May 14, 06 3:31 pm Post subject:

jamsam wrote:

sally_in_wales wrote:

Mostly I need to find a week that I can take off and simultaneously bribe a few friends to come play by offering vast amounts of food and homebrew! (any volunteers?)

where abouts?? i need to learn more self bulid stuff for this place, it feels like a self build even though some idiot built it 300 years ago...

You may just have volunteered yourself (puts on best evil-dictator-with-white-cat type laugh), we're in the Cynon Valley, pretty near Pontypridd, about 20 miles north of Cardiff.

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