In search of the Unobtainable. Creating the perfect Lurcher.

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In search of the Unobtainable. Creating the perfect Lurcher.
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Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot

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hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 3:40 pm Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

bodger wrote:

I can almost hear that Saluki thinking " Where that bloody cat then ?"

Next door's looks like babmi on rollerskates most of the time, but she can't half shift when she wants to though.

I met someone who has a big house, very very long driveway etc. They keep salukis and drove behind one that was well in his stride, running. They clocked 40 miles an hour.

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 3:55 pm Post subject:

Personal preferences aside - I have to say I'm getting really fed up with the now almost constant slagging off of people who show their dogs - Like any other group of people - there are good ones and bad ones - I get the distinct sense of superiority from those who keep pure working lines of whatever breed.

My own breed is a working terrier - it is one of the oldest known pedigree breeds in the world - the club of which I'm Secretary has been in existence since 1875 - the standard since 1876. The majority of us don't work our dogs - they were breed for use against Brock, Fox and Otters as well as general vermin - not exactly legal quarry these days - but we fight very hard to maintain our breed and keep the gameness within their temperament - In the states we have a number of Earthdog Champions in the breed.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:00 pm Post subject:

Excuse me! When did anyone on this thread slag off non working breeds of terriers?
This thread is about working dogs , so please don't get on your high horse about something that hasn't even been mentioned.
Theres absolutely no need to try and bring this sort of attitude into this thread. Please desist

Are you out to spoil a harmless friendly bit of chat? and how can something be constant, when as far as I know that this is about the first time that a topic of working dogs has ever been brought up on Downsizer ?

Last edited by Bodger on Fri Sep 08, 06 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:03 pm Post subject:

jocorless wrote:

Apologies, Jocorless. I have good friends who are breeders and their knowledge, expertise and love of their dogs is second to none. They take the responsiblility of maintaining and developing their dogs very seriously.

But, I do feel saddened when I see other people standardising a breed with no thought to the origins of the breed. And I do feel this has happened in certain sections of the saluki breeding world. Not everyone, for sure, but there is a move in this direction.

And I do worry for the future of sight hounds now the hunting ban has removed the reason for their existance as a working dog.

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:18 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

No I'm not out to spoil anyone harmless friendly chatter but there has been a number of threads over the last few months where posters have brought up the subject of pedigree dog owners and had a sideways dig - The last one I noticed it in was the showing chickens thread but I let it go then

I didn't you were having slagging off non-working terrier owners - I was putting my comments into perspective and giving some background into my point of view.

I personally found the topic very interesting as I didn't know about the different varieties of lurcher and their uses.

I know there are some breeds that have been changed for the worse by the show ring - The GSD is one awful such example, the modern bulldog another BUT not everyone is like that - Its like saying everyone who owns a gun and goes shooting is an indiscriminate murderer.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:44 pm Post subject:

J
The reason that all the KC breeds of terriers are no longer really workers is because there's no longer a need for their services .
Even before the ban, the number of working terrier men was quite small. I know because I use to be one of their number.
I now keep 4 non working Border Terriers, who havent had the working ability trained out of them but bred out of them . They are from show and pet stock.

I go hunting regularly in America and have people come across to stay with me whilst they buy working terriers from the UK. There isn't a history of working terriers in the States. They are very new to it and are in awe in general of the terrier men over here.
I've attended terrier trials over there and they are none too impressive.
My mate sent me an earth dog book by Teddy Moritz ( I'm sure you've heard of her) and I had a job to keep my face straight.

I think no less of a non working dog than I do of a working dog . Indeed I love my non workers every bit as much as I did my working dogs in the past.

I've put this picture on here before but these are my non working very happy Borders.

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:46 pm Post subject:

I might be obsessing a little on the saluki X greyhound here but...

Does anyone know about the actual crosses?

Is the cross one parent of each? Or do you cross that first cross with another first cross? What are the benefits/drawbacks of different generations of crossing (if you follow me?)?

Also, is there any difference in which sex/breed the parents of the first cross are? For example, are some traits passed on by the mother specifically, meaning you'd favour one breed over another for the mother depending on what traits you were aiming for?

I know it's nothing like an exact science, but I wondered if there were any observations or old lore on this....

I'd be interested in knowing about the crossing generally too

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 4:53 pm Post subject:

You can have all sorts of Salukli Greyhound crosses.
1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and so on. It doesn't matter whether the Saluki input comes from the male or the female side.
If you're talking about the working qualities of the off spring the most important bit about the match is the working qualities of the parents. Can they run ? Can they catch.
By preference you only breed lurchers from the best coursing and hunting strains of greyhounds and Salukis available

@Calli

Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 1682
Location: Galway

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 5:43 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I know there are some breeds that have been changed for the worse by the show ring - The GSD is one awful such example, the modern bulldog another BUT not everyone is like that - Its like saying everyone who owns a gun and goes shooting is an indiscriminate murderer.

Why is the GSD so bad? My two are very well bred old style straight backed GSDs

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 6:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

The last one I noticed it in was the showing chickens thread but I let it go then

That was me

& I apologise if I offended. It was only a generalisation.
I have nothing against breed standards but I would hate to see all breeds completely standardised. Maybe the saluki owners should start a working category as they have done with other working breeds

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 6:52 pm Post subject:
Tavascarow. They had and then they went and banned coursing !

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 7:02 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

Don't let the looks fool you. I bet you don't have too many cat problems in your area.

You could be right! I think we're lucky in that the places we let them off are relatively cat free.

Or they are now...

hedgewitch

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 5834
Location: Daft wench GHQ

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 7:06 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

I wish I knew the parentage of my lad. He was "talent spotted" by a local lurcher man when he was v young (the hound, not the bloke!) and he does seem to be developing in the way this guy said he would. I feel like I'm missing out on half the fun with not knowing what was hoped for when he was bred. And in another life, I'd love to get into breeding them. Of course, that would be in the parallell universe where I also learn to ride, shoot, work with leather and have blacksmithing skills

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46239
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:15 pm Post subject:
my ones

spanky

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
Location: near lowestoft suffolk

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:35 pm Post subject:
have had lab x greys and a border collie x grey and all the long dog mixes and without a doubt a welsh collie x greyhound ( the big type ) is the best i have ever seen . and used .for rabbit hare and foxes . shame was she got killed running into a broken pail fence , get a bitch grey hound and put a big 3 yr old collie dog over her , run the bitches as the dogs are a bit headstrong

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