In search of the Unobtainable. Creating the perfect Lurcher.

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In search of the Unobtainable. Creating the perfect Lurcher.
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Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:15 pm Post subject:
my ones

spanky

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
Location: near lowestoft suffolk

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:35 pm Post subject:
have had lab x greys and a border collie x grey and all the long dog mixes and without a doubt a welsh collie x greyhound ( the big type ) is the best i have ever seen . and used .for rabbit hare and foxes . shame was she got killed running into a broken pail fence , get a bitch grey hound and put a big 3 yr old collie dog over her , run the bitches as the dogs are a bit headstrong

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:39 pm Post subject:
Would a collie x wippet be more agile? The fields are small here & the rabbits have less distance to reach cover.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 9:46 pm Post subject:
Ideal for rabbiting but if the master isn't up to the job they might be to bright for their own good. Thats why I favour big raw boned non pedigree racing whippets. We're on a parr. Last edited by Bodger on Sat Sep 09, 06 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 06 10:08 pm Post subject:

ExilesinGalway wrote:

Quote:

I know there are some breeds that have been changed for the worse by the show ring - The GSD is one awful such example, the modern bulldog another BUT not everyone is like that - Its like saying everyone who owns a gun and goes shooting is an indiscriminate murderer.

Why is the GSD so bad? My two are very well bred old style straight backed GSDs

Thats exactly what I mean - the English style of the GSD used to have a beautiful straight back and could work all day without stopping - now modern day German style GSD's have a very weak back end and terrible problems with their hips

Compare these beautiful dogs

to this -

I know which sort I'd rather have

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 6:33 am Post subject:

Surely one of the reasons why there are still recognised physically fit 'working' strains of GSDs is the demand for working dogs from the police and the armed services.
The other factor will have been a group of level headed showing people who have designed their breeding programmes to produce sane physically sound pups.
I don't know what the state of play is with the GSD in regard to it sorting out any breed defects, but you can rest assured that the back and hip problem that your photos so graphically display will have been introduced by a section of the showing fraternity.
At one time or another the exagerated type of specimens will have held sway in the show ring , I presume and hope that his is no longer the case.

Banshee

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Kerry girl stuck in Essex

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 7:50 am Post subject:
Its not the hips that give way, its the nerves that go, back in Ireland we had a few GSD's and they all unfortunatly went the same way. Hence why I have a stupid SBT. Shame that these dogs are afflicted with this. Its easy to spot early on. when the dog walks you will see one of his back legs hitting his other leg, then its a downward slope from there, very sad

@Calli

Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 1682
Location: Galway

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 8:02 am Post subject:
I don't know what the breed standards for gsd states but why would anyone - even in show ring want dogs with hip/joint problems - not fit for their job. My gsd bitch now 14 and still going strong(old style flat back - shall we reform the standards all should be flat backed?)

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 8:11 am Post subject:
At the end of the day I'm afraid that its �s shillings and pence that leads to the downfall of many pedigree breeds of dogs. Banshee I reckon a nice SBT x Greyhound would serve you well

spanky

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
Location: near lowestoft suffolk

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 10:59 pm Post subject:

i used to breed them under the ducarakarlakie kc name , my dogs all came from shooterway centaus - letton premium bob crufts 77 and kingbruin the bear who had hips of 1.1 as soon as they put a german dog zanto zuden stocken of emmervale in the line it wrecked the dogs completly scores went to 4.4 and that dog was the german sch 1 a stamp, my other dogs came from a true british line ramacon swashbuckler crufts supreme champion in 71 they went though to the hendrawen spartacist and tarquin and turned out brilliant english gsd with real good bone and body structure , the fault came when they brought a dawnaway dominic into the line and he threw a longcoat gene. peronally i think this came from a x ing with lynova lucilla a non descript bitch who came out of a champion rossfort premonition and delicia of krakatoa again a non descript xing . we have lost the true english blood lines now with the mad rush to germanise the dog .hopefully somewhere there is a true british line that will be used to recover the genes in the gsd when they end up looking like squat manchester terriers

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 11:40 pm Post subject:
you know your gsds

spanky

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
Location: near lowestoft suffolk

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 06 11:48 pm Post subject:
we had 26 mate sold them to raf and police ,i worked with humberside police as a runner also had a gsd at crufts in the agilty stakes ,nowwe have the suffolk dog team do tracking on the etsate where i work i have gundogs now tho. hate what the german blood has done to the breed

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46207
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 06 12:29 am Post subject:

proper pack

i have resisted the fashions of dogdom cos they do cause problems breeding working dogs is very different to breeding for fashion .
my home breeds have been mixed ,when i have had control i have tried to add complimentary genes to each other and pick the best from the litter .
something that has surprised me is how pairings of good (each in their own way )dogs can produce a range of pups from excellent to flawed , hound genetics is complex and variable ,
my sable yellow muppet has fathered some stunning pups with a variety of girls (not always with my consent ,what an skp

)
so has his brother , the best ones have had working spaniel or wiemarraner mothers
though the grand kids have included a few newfie /wolf genes as well

one of those is a black velvet hound big ,smoothe and sensible .
do folk add wolf genes to "working gsd "dogs ?
i like wolf genes .athletic and loyal , messy fur but

full wolf is not a happy house mate in most circumstances but 1/4 wolf adds a bit of something good to hounds .(if you want a big one

some are huge ,he is filling the hallway )
both my not quite dogs have been rescue cases ,lots of people dont seem to know how to handle them but if i remember im bilingual in dog and woof both tig and ron fitted in really well considering their backgrounds
some people should never go near hounds
sorry a bit of a hijack from perfect lurcher
speed or stamia or strenth or sensible ,spose you really need all of them ,so a good mother and a good father ,pick the best and raise it well .

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 06 6:38 am Post subject:
Its all good stuff d pack . Its all common sense and thats whats required in keeping dogs of any description. Its also whats sadly lacking in some quarters of the pedigree dog world. Alas !

spanky

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
Location: near lowestoft suffolk

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 06 1:00 pm Post subject:
its called " the fashion stakes " some prat wants to take his/her dog and make it lok new for the next season.so they mess with the dog and its crud what comes out. to many asses in the upper echelons of the kc unfortunalty ..... in my opinion only

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