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judith
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
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 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 12:00 pm Post subject: |
 
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Not being argumentative, Justme, just trying to get this straight in my own head. If there are no legal mobiles in the UK, who are the "itinerant slaughtermen" mentioned in this paragraph?
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Slaughter on-farm by an itinerant slaughterman
16. It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to kill his animal and to dress it. This is because (as explained at paragraph 6(b) above) the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business. The slaughter and the supply of the dressed carcase back to the farmer would give rise to a number of offences under Article 4 of EC Regulation 853/2004, as would any subsequent placing on the market. If, however, the slaughterman did no more than kill the animal for the farmer, leaving the farmer to dress and cut the carcase, the Courts
might be less likely to conclude that the slaughterman was supplying goods (and more likely to be supplying services). If so, this activity might be held to be lawful, (i.e. neither the Hygiene Regulations nor the TSE Regulations would prohibit it) although the issue is far from clear. |
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percypony
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 146
Location: Hants
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moonwind
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140
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judith
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
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moonwind
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| judith wrote: |
| moonwind wrote: |
| [To have a fresh piggie cut to my preferences and not stuffed full of water and any other preservatives or the like, be able to have a roast with real crackling on, and to be able to make some real pork dripping (if I wanted to) |
You can still have all that. I plan to have all those things next Monday when I take my porkers to the abattoir. For the vast sum of �30 each, they will be slaughtered and butchered to my requirements. If you use one of the smaller abattoirs, the pigs will be killed within minutes of arriving - quickly and humanely - and as RobR said on a different post, you don't have to worry about disposal of the waste or cleaning up afterwards. |
That is fine when you have a facility within reasonable distance fromy your home.
Unfortunately many small abbatoirs have disappeared completely.
It is a crazy situation, because you are quite right when you say that the smaller abbattoirs did do a wonderful job and you could get all your requirements.
You are lucky to have one nearby, down this neck of the woods they have all succumbed to a handful of the big commercial ones, any smaller ones have a huge waiting list too.
We had a piggie from a neighbour a couple of years back which had been slaughtered and butchered by the abbatoir, which if memory serves me well is well over one hour transport time away 
The cutlets were full of mechanical saw splinters and I am sure the carcass was still twitching it was "too" fresh.
It would be great if the government assisted more small abbatoirs to re-open, they should have assisted with grants when the upgrading of the premises became a legal requirement, rather than let so many "go to the wall".
How far is your small abbatoir from your home?
Will they hang carcasses the old fashioned way if you ask?
Wish there was a small "family run" abbatoir near here. |
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
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Rob R
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| moonwind wrote: |
You are lucky to have one nearby, down this neck of the woods they have all succumbed to a handful of the big commercial ones, any smaller ones have a huge waiting list too.
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That is true. We are very lucky, being within a few miles of a licensed abattoir that can also butcher on site, who also was big enough/able to expand facilities to accomodate the new regulations. It has put quite a few restrictions on me to use them, but I think it is a case of use it or lose it. Even the small abattoirs are commercial businesses facing the same pressures, so it is certainly worth paying them more for a job well done. Unfortunately many of my forebearers did not have that insight, which has led to us losing many in this country.
It can be a bit of a postcode lottery with abattoir provision & it should be the first thing you think about before rearing meat animals, as you absolutely need to be sure of where your animal is going from the start, as you don't want to be left high & dry at the end. |
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Naomi
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1945
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| judith wrote: |
Not being argumentative, Justme, just trying to get this straight in my own head. If there are no legal mobiles in the UK, who are the "itinerant slaughtermen" mentioned in this paragraph?
| Quote: |
Slaughter on-farm by an itinerant slaughterman
16. It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to kill his animal and to dress it. This is because (as explained at paragraph 6(b) above) the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business. The slaughter and the supply of the dressed carcase back to the farmer would give rise to a number of offences under Article 4 of EC Regulation 853/2004, as would any subsequent placing on the market. If, however, the slaughterman did no more than kill the animal for the farmer, leaving the farmer to dress and cut the carcase, the Courts
might be less likely to conclude that the slaughterman was supplying goods (and more likely to be supplying services). If so, this activity might be held to be lawful, (i.e. neither the Hygiene Regulations nor the TSE Regulations would prohibit it) although the issue is far from clear. |
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Just guessing but maybe an 'itinerant slaughterman' is a man able to kill your animals for humane reasons etc not for home consumption or resale .That is still legal for a person to do ,but on no account must the animal enter the food chain. |
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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judith
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
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moonwind
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob R wrote: |
| moonwind wrote: |
You are lucky to have one nearby, down this neck of the woods they have all succumbed to a handful of the big commercial ones, any smaller ones have a huge waiting list too.
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That is true. We are very lucky, being within a few miles of a licensed abattoir that can also butcher on site, who also was big enough/able to expand facilities to accomodate the new regulations. It has put quite a few restrictions on me to use them, but I think it is a case of use it or lose it. Even the small abattoirs are commercial businesses facing the same pressures, so it is certainly worth paying them more for a job well done. Unfortunately many of my forebearers did not have that insight, which has led to us losing many in this country.
It can be a bit of a postcode lottery with abattoir provision & it should be the first thing you think about before rearing meat animals, as you absolutely need to be sure of where your animal is going from the start, as you don't want to be left high & dry at the end. |
Couldn't agree more, Rob. I wish there were a handful of people prepared to pick up the niche of small, as I reckon there will be a future in it because there are enough people now trying to source food more locally to them, and therefore naturally more easily traceable if the need even arose.
Personally we are the wrong side of 30 to think about it, which leaves us frustrated when you want to be sure you are eating the animal you reared and that it did not go through unecessary stress
which affects the carcass as you will be aware of yourself, and then butchered poorly and probably not even the same animal returned to you! (Not that I am in the least cynical you understand  )
I can see good and bad on both sides, but no clear solution.
Rebel against bad law quite happily, but am not dumb enough not to realise that there should not be a complete open licence for home killing.
There are some who .... "enough said"  ... |
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moonwind
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 06 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Justme wrote: |
| moonwind wrote: |
If I wanted the piggie for the freezer then I would just have it.
I wouldn't buy it of course, because I might be breaking some very strange regulation and heaven forbid I may fall over and graze my knee.
I would however, give a volunatry donation to the person who owns the piggie.
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Sorry but thats still illegal. The offence is to supply or offer to supply (so a freezer full of meat packed /labeled / priced would be included). A sale takes place even without money / goods changing hands.
Been looking into this in a BIG way as our nearest slaughter house involes a 280 mile trip (70 miles each way & you have to go twice). We take to the slaughter house animals for selling for meat & kill our own. But we have to use sepperate premises & freezers to comply with the rules.
We have looked into setting up as a micro slaughter house but the rules are just to costly to comply with on a small scale.
Justme |
Hi Justme (well justyou!!)
Maybe Downsizers should start forming a few regional lobby groups to lobby Government (including our own Welsh Assembly) to give Grant Aid for people such as yourself to assist them rather than work against them.
You see what gets me is that the Government say that they want the planet we share to be cared for and we should care about the environment and recycle etc etc., yet when it comes to supporting the downsizing of food sources properly, i.e helping small abbatoirs set-up to provide a sustainable local future with happier and healthier, good quality meat (in this case), less food miles associated with the production of it, they are NOT helping, and that makes me suspicious of just how much Government (apart from electioneering) really do give a damn about the Environment.
You can look at it with the recycling message too, recycling should be freely picked up, because at present LA's are making good money from our waste.
It is a good thing, but if their preference is profit or care I am yet to be convinced !
I digress, have you written to your MP, AM or Eurocrat for your area and asked them if there are any grants for your business proposals.
It would be good to see some motivated people lobbying for downsize issues like these.
They only have to look at how many members this site has to be shown there are plenty of people (and growing in number) that are very interested in sustainable living. Living that is friendlier to the planet we live on.
Maybe the Western Mail would do an article on it, they usually take up good local issues. |
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