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Downsizer Forum Index -> Small Business Questions, Ideas and Advice

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NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 9:09 pm Post subject:

As i say it is in early deelopment stages, may not even happen. We are 5 mins off the m4 so its ideal for transporting goods. It would not be a large herd, i aim to keep it smallish with a quality end product. I looked at some stats today regaring imported pig meat, 850,000 tonnes is mported each year, 2 thirds of which does not meet uk welfare standards, in effect this would probably dog food at most had it been reared in the uk. This really spurred me to think even more about further producing my own meat. I can trace every pig back 5 generations at least, it has been reared to highest welfare standards with a very good life. Interpretaions of local are different to every person, but if it were uk or regionally available, would people consider it more?

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 9:13 pm Post subject:
Forgot to mention on the organic, i have looked at and spoke to a few organic pig farmers. They tell me themselves its no diferent to a good outdoor herd and they say themselves they would reconider if given opportunity again as with rising feed costs they see there market narrowing as the end product price rises. But i am in favour o organic type rearing!

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 9:18 pm Post subject:
Rob's meat seems to travel quite far afield. Actually Chris I thought you were a small business. I can buy pork like this locally so would only be interested if "someone was passing" if you see what I mean but surely you have quite a large population local to you.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 9:19 pm Post subject:
Have you though of getting into the value-added market of sausages and ham etc, as well as the meat Chris? Our farmer is fattening up a piggy for us here on the farm, so we wouldn't be interested I'm afraid

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 9:28 pm Post subject:

No the pigs are my hobby, i am very passionate about them, enjoy taking them to shows and seeing how they fair with others. I understand that most people here have access to their own or a neighbours pork but am after a general picture if you get what i mean? I am initially looking to use wales and west and border counties maybe as a market, these comments are really helpful, keep them coming please!

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 10:25 pm Post subject:

I'd think very hard about turning an enjoyable hobby into a business before taking any steps in that direction. You would think that going full time on your hobby, as a job, would give you more time, but that is not necessarily the case, and you may find you dislike jobs that you once enjoyed. I don't want to dampen any enthusiasm, but also don't want you to jump in & find you can't swim.

You have to be prepared to work relentlessly, for little money. You'll also need a fair bit of business knowledge, as so many people are going out of business in livestock farming, you have to be really something to keep your head above water & go on to prosper. Also, many concessions apply to 'hobby' keepers that are more stringent for 'businesses'.

What are you doing now (to earn a living)? How long have you been working on it as a hobby? Who/what have you got behind you i.e. capital, supportive family, knowledge, training/experience (the latter is much more important than the former)?

I think you would be better gradually building up your hobby until the point where you can make the leap to being in business without having a large gap between losing your income & the pigs being self-sustaining (the bit where you have naff all to live on until things get going).

A combination of factors caused me to convert to a business 3.5 years ago, but it started as a hobby in 1994 & has progressed gradually at first.

I can recommend a very good book to you (or anyone considering it)- "You Can Farm" by Joel Salatin (and no, I don't supply it, but it is available on Amazon).

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 10:33 pm Post subject:

I think that is what i plan, to gradually part time build it up over the next year or so until it is providing properley for me, just a gradual transition is my plan. Cheers rob, thats what i ahve been thinking and now hearing it from someone already doing it makes it sound more senseible. I am to gradually build the herd slowly by an extra farrowing sow a month, hopefully all home bred, over the next year or 2. In 2 years time i may still wish to continue it as a hobby/part time bsiness, rather than full time. Gradual sounds best.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 10:44 pm Post subject:
It is better to grow on your sucess than it is to set out trying to be 'sucessful' at something. You may find yourself still keeping pigs as a hobby in years to come, and doing something completely different as your own business, it all depends upon what opportunities develop throughout your life, and how you develop in yourself.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 06 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Feedback Wanted

NeathChris wrote:

Would people from further afield be interested in my product if it was available online with a courier deivery service?

If the price is right for a bulk buy, then yeah, maybe. Bunched together with other nearby Downsizer members, that could be worthwhile. Not ideal for us (you're not that local!) but I think we'd look into it.

moonwind

Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1140

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 12:34 am Post subject:

If all the pork from NeathChris is as good as the half we bought last week then none of you would be disappointed.

You could still have your website Chris, that'll be Winter rhan amser College course then

I think offering sausages and stuff would be good on a website and the selling point has got to be Outdoor traditionally reared.

We were never officially an organic holding, but the only fertiliser used on our land in ten years was calcified seaweed and that was only two applications.

You'll have to go to Newport and buy a fridge van then you could start doing a delivery service yourself, just work in the mileage (estimated) for your chosen delivery area, which will of course cover the Carmarthen area.

Research the area, I know there are quite a few folk who do sell pork round here, but yours was butchered very well which is something to bring to potential customers notice.

Have an ear to the floor to see who is selling what, and how much and to whom?

Week last Sunday there was a market lorry selling meat at Carmarthen Sunday Market, on the side of the lorry was some address in West Midlands!!

Heaven knows where the meat on that had come from but it seemed awfully cheap, too cheap if you know what I mean.

Anyway good luck whatever you decide. I think Rob's is sound build it up gradually and let the wind find its own destiny.

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 8:52 am Post subject:
Have a look at the sausages in your local famers market type outlet. They retail at about �9 or �10/kg for free range/organic/traditional breeds. Basically double the retail price of the meat for a day's work. Even if it's an extension of your hobby it can provide a cash boost everynow and then.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 10:58 am Post subject:

There is no doubt about the quality of your piggies, and the side we made into bacon is delicious. Having been at your place when your neighbour turned up with her van of veggies, I think one possible half way point for you would be to maybe hire or borrow a small refrigerated van once a month and do a delivery run yourself locally. That way you can spend the rest of the month with the pigs, building up your marketing, dealing with people who are happy to come to you, and also taking pre opders so on that one day you can plan an effective route and deliver the rest. You see that happening in some areas with travelling fishmongers, if you also have 'surplus' on the van, you will probably find that when you stop to drop off an order the buyers neighbours will come for a nose round, and you make a few more sales, or will decide to try a new sausage recipe, just because it is there.

Just a thought, but it might be a way to test the scope of the market in the early days. Target the local restaraunts too, get that website up to get the information about your meat out there, and see what happens.

People will come back for more, we've already ordered our next pig having tried it once, I don't think that will be an unusual occurrance.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45671
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 12:10 pm Post subject:

Justme wrote:

Do you plan on doing the butchery yourself? Check out courers as we cant get one to collect when asked (even with 3 days notice that we want a collection) or to deliver next day. Ok so we are a bit off the beaten track but not that far off. I guess if we had shipments going out every day it would be a diff matter.

Try a different courier, we've had no hassles getting meat in from Welsh Hook (quite a large firm) and Abraham Natural produce who probably only send out 2 or 3 shipments a week. WH use ANC, the other lot use Initial CityLink

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 12:12 pm Post subject:

That is something i didnt think of to be honest. We are looking into a training scheme being run by farming connect about processing our meat into more valuable commodities, sausage etc, but we have to do a butchery course first if we are eligable. But a once a month round trip is an excellent idea! If you want a bigger side for bacon let me know and i will run some pigs on longer

. I am looking forward to my christmas pork, really fancy some chops but have none here so have to wait.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 06 12:39 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Try a different courier,

Tried a few but they all failed at some point (colelction or delivery). We were starting off so only sending stuff as & when. Might try again at some point.

If you do the sums on turning a whole pig into sausage it works out very good money wise.

assuming killed weight 100kg
(no namby pamby 50kg cutters you need good old fashioned baconers)

after skining & boning out you will have 66kg pure meat.
as you will be doing an minimum of 66% meat content you will end up with 100kg of sausages.

We sell ours at �7 kg so thats �700 for a full pig.
You do have extra costs of course (skins mixes seasonings fillers ect & extra disposal of bone & skin packing labeling ect ect) if I remember right about �70 would cover it (not inc killing [�15] & butchery [do that your self if you have the skills & place to do it] ).

Justme

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