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breeder or supplier? whats the law?

 
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mrs p



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 8:57 am    Post subject: breeder or supplier? whats the law? Reply with quote
    

ok not sure if it goes here but heres my question

if your raising chicks ,lambs,piglets ducklings, rabbits, whatever to SELL as live to rear on or even as pets, what is the law about it?

when do people like the council inspectors, liscencers, tax etc get involved?

do you have to be a regular breeder of animals? over a certain quota? is it the minute you ask for money to exchange hands ?when?

Can anyone quote an actual case?

 
judith



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It depends on the animal.

Chickens - once you have more than 50 birds you need to register your flock with Defra. Not sure how other poultry fit in.

Pigs, sheep, goats and cattle - you have to register your flock / herd BEFORE you acquire a single animal and you, your records and your animals will be liable for inspection in the same way as any farmer.

As far as tax is concerned, any money you make is income and should be declared on your tax return.

 
pookie



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 4984
Location: Mid-Wales
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

other poultry ie ducks, geese, turkeys etc have to be counted in your 50 along with the chickens, (so if you have 40 chickens and 15 ducks then you are over the 50 mark and have to register)

 
gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Surely for anything to count as a business, you have to do it regularly and with commercial intent ? Otherwise every time you sold (say) your car, you would have to register with the Revenue as a car dealer, which is clearly not the case. Or, say, selling off unwanted items of your own furniture on a one-off / occasional basis.

I assume the same would go for young animals if it wasn't a regular breeding activity.

 
NeathChris



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Cash sales.

 
Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

judith wrote:
As far as tax is concerned, any money you make is income and should be declared on your tax return.


Yep, it took a little while to track down but here it is:

From: https://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/tax/tax-exempt_and_taxable_income.htm#whichistaxable

Quote:
Other types of income which are taxable

The following other types of income are taxable:-

* profits from the sale of most goods and property


Now, does that mean if I sell one plant for 50p I have to complete a tax return?

 
MarkS



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2626

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

If you grew it with the intention to sell then yes.

As a rule of thumb, disposal of things you no longer want (ie used but now redundant or surplus) such as old clothes, cars, white goods etc are not subject to tax unless they are high value goods that you have made a profit on when cgt applies. regular buying and selling of such items becomes a trade.


If you are buying stuff in to sell or breeding with the intent to sell then you are in business.

 
marigold



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

So if you register as a self-employed plant raiser and seller can you offset all your garden centre purchases against tax? Even if you only sell one plant for 50p a year (because you are a rotten sales person)?

 
MarkS



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2626

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No, only against tax due by the business - but I guess there wont be much profit to offset ?


Course you would have to be happy with the idea of hmcre taking a *very* close interest in everything else you and your partner do.

And then managing the appeals against their penalty determinations.


Yeah. Go for it.

 
marigold



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

MarkS wrote:
No, only against tax due by the business - but I guess there wont be much profit to offset ?


Course you would have to be happy with the idea of hmcre taking a *very* close interest in everything else you and your partner do.

And then managing the appeals against their penalty determinations.


Yeah. Go for it.




 
Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

MarkS wrote:
No, only against tax due by the business - but I guess there wont be much profit to offset ?


Course you would have to be happy with the idea of hmcre taking a *very* close interest in everything else you and your partner do.

And then managing the appeals against their penalty determinations.


Yeah. Go for it.


However, you CAn register for VAT, and claim it back on everything you buy for the business. Which can include a portion of your bills for the premises, fuel and vehicle servicing, cat food and dog food, and vet bills (They help you keep vermin down and burglars out), etc etc.

And the Excise have plenty of people paid to help you do this. If you're spending any money on vattable items for any business, even if, as you say, you only sell a single chicken or plant, you can claim it back. They are there to ensure you pay tax and claim back that which you overpay, regardless of how good you are at business.

 
Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick Howe wrote:
However, you CAn register for VAT, and claim it back on everything you buy for the business. Which can include a portion of your bills for the premises, fuel and vehicle servicing, cat food and dog food, and vet bills (They help you keep vermin down and burglars out), etc etc.

And the Excise have plenty of people paid to help you do this. If you're spending any money on vattable items for any business, even if, as you say, you only sell a single chicken or plant, you can claim it back. They are there to ensure you pay tax and claim back that which you overpay, regardless of how good you are at business.


Amen!

 
Helen_A



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: MK, Bucks.
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 07 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Just wish that the nuggers had people to get on with the actual registrations.

I registered back at the end of March and have still yet to be processed and allocated a number. They told me today that I could still be looking at another 4 weeks as they have only just got to the registrations for the middle of that month...

Helen_A

 
Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 07 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Helen_A wrote:
Just wish that the nuggers had people to get on with the actual registrations.

I registered back at the end of March and have still yet to be processed and allocated a number. They told me today that I could still be looking at another 4 weeks as they have only just got to the registrations for the middle of that month...

Helen_A


Registering with who? For a CPH?

 
Helen_A



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: MK, Bucks.
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 07 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Oh - sorry, no register for VAT for me.

Although talking to a chap at our local farmers market the other week, the agriculture varieties of registration are all taking their time atm as well

Helen_A

 
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