Abattoirs, do you legally have to use them?

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Abattoirs, do you legally have to use them?
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ButteryHOLsomeness

Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 770

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:17 pm Post subject: Abattoirs, do you legally have to use them?

i was wondering if someone could explain to me the rules about slaughtering your own meat

am i right in believing that it is illegal to slaughter your own animals even if they are only for your families consumption?

why is this and how long has it been the law?

does this apply to smaller livestock like chickens and ducks?

what happens if you don't have an abattoir anywhere near you? when we lived on skye the nearest one was dingwall more than 100 miles away...what would be the situation then?

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:23 pm Post subject:
There may be some info here: https://www.food.gov.uk/ The meat hygeine service come under this lot.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:40 pm Post subject:
The basic situation as i understand it is that home slaughter of livestock (excluding poultry) is allowed ONLY if the meat will be eaten by the farmer and his family on the premises. So you couldn't even feed it to someone that came over for dinner. And this is something that's only been regulated in the last 4/5 years or so.

ButteryHOLsomeness

Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 770

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:44 pm Post subject:

how stringent are they on these rules? i think it's a bit ridiculous to say i can't have my mil to eat dinner with me when we are self sufficient for food someday... is she just supposed to look at meat and drool?

obviously you should need to inform people where the meat came from but if someone gets sick and wants to sue you they'll do so regardless of where it's slaughtered and how it's prepared...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:52 pm Post subject:
That i couldn't tell you.

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:52 pm Post subject:
I more or less have the same understanding of it as Tahir, except, I didn't know that poultry were excluded. Are you sure about that?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:54 pm Post subject:
Not sure actually.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 2:54 pm Post subject:
As long as you aren't selling the meat who's to know? Oh, are rabbits classified as poultry? I can't see an abattoir being very chuffed if you turned up with half a dozen bunnies.

Jb

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 3:03 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

Oh, are rabbits classified as poultry? I can't see an abattoir being very chuffed if you turned up with half a dozen bunnies.

Or fish!

More seriously what about all the semi-wild food? What if someone farms venison or boar would they have to catch that and then get an abbatoir to deal with it? Asking an abbatoir to dispatch a brace of bunnies would be ridiculous and farcical but asking them to handle a wild (in fact probably not so much wild as livid) boar would be downright dangerous.

Presumably they also ignored the fact that its completely inconsistent with good handling practice for game and wild food?

Oh well just another example of braindead government run by people who's knowledge of nature owes more to disney than reality.

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 05 3:07 pm Post subject:

The regulations in Wales are as follows:

Quote:

11. As far as private slaughter is concerned, the EU TSE controls apply to the extent provided for by Regulation 999/2001. That Regulation applies not only when a sale of meat for human consumption takes place, but also where there is supply to a third party in the community. This means that the controls apply in all situations where a third party is involved. Therefore, it is no longer possible for the farmer to supply meat from privately slaughtered animals to the rest of his household without the TSE Regulations having been applied, as they are considered to be a third party. The only exception is a truly private kill where a farmer slaughters the animal himself, processes it himself, and consumes it himself.
The Under 10,000 exemption
12. There are some circumstances where poultry, farmed game birds and rabbits do not have to be slaughtered in a licensed slaughterhouse in order for their meat to be lawfully sold for human consumption. This is the �under 10,000 exemption� at Regulation 3 of the Poultry Meat, Farmed Game Bird Meat and Rabbit Meat (Hygiene and Inspection) Regulations 1995. In essence, under this exemption, a farmer may slaughter on his holding birds or rabbits reared there and sell them for human consumption, provided that he rears and slaughters less than 10,000 of them per year. There are a number of conditions attached to this exemption, and these are set out in guidance from the Agency to Heads of Environmental Health and Trading Standards issued on 4th December 2002 (Annex C).
The Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995
13. There is also legislation to protect the welfare of farmed livestock (both red meat animals and poultry) during the slaughter or killing process. Whenever such livestock is slaughtered (death caused by bleeding after stunning) or killed (immediate death), it must be carried out in accordance with the Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations 1995 (as amended). The Meat Hygiene Service enforces this in licensed slaughterhouses and farmed game handling facilities. Outside licensed premises i.e. on farm, the Regulations are enforced by the State Veterinary Service. These Regulations make it an offence to cause or permit any avoidable excitement, pain or suffering to any animal or bird during the slaughter or killing process. They also require everyone carrying out such operations to have the knowledge and skill necessary to perform the tasks humanely and efficiently in accordance with the Regulations. Only the permitted stunning and killing methods laid down in the Regulations may be used. The Regulations also require most people involved in the slaughter or killing process to be licensed, although there are a number of exemptions from this requirement. These exemptions include:
(i) the slaughtering or killing of an animal or bird by the owner for his/her private consumption;
(ii) the use of a free bullet to kill an animal in the field; and
(iii) the killing of a bird by dislocation of the neck on premises on which the bird was reared.

So, no, you can't feed it to your MIL, Buttery, unless it is poultry, rabbit or game.

Riverflow

Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Deepest Darkest Hampshire

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 05 12:22 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

The regulations in Wales are as follows:

Quote:

The Regulations also require most people involved in the slaughter or killing process to be licensed, although there are a number of exemptions from this requirement. These exemptions include:
(i) the slaughtering or killing of an animal or bird by the owner for his/her private consumption;
(ii) the use of a free bullet to kill an animal in the field; and
(iii) the killing of a bird by dislocation of the neck on premises on which the bird was reared.

Am I missing something, or if point (ii) above is the case, can anyone shoot an animal in the field? I mean, can a smallholder raise some sheep and, providing they are a competent shot, and have the right equipment (and possibly had the vet out to check the animals over), shoot one or two for the table when they are grazing happily in the field, after separating them from the rest of the flock, rather than going to an abbatoir?

Also, point (i) - what sort of animal or bird? A rabbit or chicken, or a cow?

Colin

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 05 12:42 pm Post subject:

I think that (i) does apply to any animal at all but, as discussed above, you would have to eat it all yourself, and not even allow other family members to share - so a whole steer would probably be a bit of a waste.

With (ii), I am pretty sure it applies to animals like deer which are normally shot in the field, rather than being taken to the abattoir. I would imagine that the TSE regulations that apply to sheep would take precedence here, but it isn't clear from that though, I must admit.

ButteryHOLsomeness

Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 770

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 05 3:00 pm Post subject:
does anyone else here feel these laws are ridiculous and grossly unfair to smallholders?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 05 3:02 pm Post subject:

ButteryHOLsomeness wrote:

does anyone else here feel these laws are ridiculous and grossly unfair to smallholders?

Probably just about everybody

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 05 3:03 pm Post subject:
Yes - this counrty is institutionally oppresive to small holders and wannabe peasants with regard to agircultural regulations, meat processing regs, planning and land use, taxes and general costs. Basically you have to go into farming as a business.

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