Getting a top bar hive - newbie question

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Getting a top bar hive - newbie question

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jamanda
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 6:10 pm Post subject: Getting a top bar hive - newbie question

I partially went though my bees today and they seem to be doing fine - just to recap I got a nuc of 6 frames right at the end of last Summer. I've been adding frames gradually to fill the brood box and now it's nearly full - space for one more - two when the frame feeder comes out.

I saw lots of eggs today which was enough to tell me things are OK - it was a bit windy and I didn't want to chill the brood.

So as it's the school hols I get to go to the apiary this week and will need to buy what I need for the next stage.

I need another super for the present national hive, and would like to get another hive. If I get a top bar hive how do I actually colonise it? Say I find a nice queen cell in my national - what do I do? I can't rely on waiting for a swarm because I have to be at work and can't just say "Tara, year seven - I'm off to catch a swarm of bees"

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 8:20 pm Post subject:

I would feed them & encourage overcrowding.
When you see queen cells being built take all the frames with brood,eggs & the queencells & after brushing the bees off them (Can't shake as it will damage the young developing queens) put them in a separate brood box.
Fill up the gaps with frames of foundation or drawn comb.
So you have the old brood box (Box1) with all the bees & the old queen & a new brood box (Box2) with all the brood eggs & queen cells.
Put the queen excluder over box1 & place box 2 on top, the young house bees will come up through the excluder to tend to the brood & eggs.
After a couple of days you can move box 2 to a new site (Recommend feeding these as most of the foragers will stay with box 1) to make a second colony in two nationals or as you now have the old queen with most of the older foraging bees in box 1 you could shake them into your TBH putting it on the site of Box 1.
The empty brood frames can be given to box 2.
Basically an artificial swarm.
If you want you can do all the above before queen cells are formed.
As long as there are larvae of the right age the young bees will raise queens from those once they find themselves queenless.
If they fail put another frame in with larvae of the right age & they will have a second go.
From Dave cushmans site on selecting the right age larvae

Quote:

the easiest way that I can describe this, is to say that the larva should be the same size (or a tiny bit more) as an egg, but curled round in a 'C' shape. At least by describing it in this way you will never forget that you have a reference source available close at hand.

Is that clear?

Last edited by Tavascarow on Sat Apr 04, 09 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 8:21 pm Post subject:
Dunno, but I might do by next year. Going to discuss sharing a hive with Jack's sister.

jamanda
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 9:55 pm Post subject:
That's beautifully clear Tav, and if I get a National, I will follow your instuctions to the T. But how would I get them into a topbar hive?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 10:26 pm Post subject:

Just shake the bees in box 1 (The old queen & foragers) into the TBH frame at a time & put the bars over the top for them to climb up to.
You will get a lot take to the wing but if you put the TBH on the site of box 1 before you start the shake down, with the entrance facing the same way they will find their way back.
They will have no brood to feed & have to build new comb so are very unlikely to swarm again & if we have a summer might gather a surplus.
Box 2 will hopefully rear one or two queens depending on its strength.
Thats why I suggest feeding now to build them up.
The more bees in the original colony the stronger the artificial swarm & new colony.
Split a weak colony & you will need to feed both halves split a strong colony & you will only ned to feed box 2 & only till the young bees start foraging.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 10:28 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Is this a risky thing to attempt for a complete numpty novice? I am feeding them.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35057
Location: Devon

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 09 10:32 pm Post subject:
Another numpty question - how ever I split the hive - will I not get any honey this year?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 09 7:10 am Post subject:

Jamanda wrote:

Tavascarow wrote:

Is this a risky thing to attempt for a complete numpty novice? I am feeding them.

I should have added if you have a cheap hand sprayer that hasn't contained anything nasty you can spray them after shaking each frame with some sugar solution. (About the same strength as spring feed).
This will stop a lot from taking to the wing.
There are risks.
You might loose or crush the queen.
They might not like their new home & abscond.
But generally it's a straight forward operation.
If you really don't think you are confident yet you can put the frames in the TBH upside down (Tops resting on the bottom of the TBH) & wrong way round (lengthways along the TBH).
I've read about this method & it works as the bees dont like upside down comb (nectar runs out) but if you dont remove the frames as soon as the bees have moved off you risk a lot of brace comb being built in all directions si it wouldn't be my choice.

Jamanda wrote:

Another numpty question - how ever I split the hive - will I not get any honey this year?

Obviously by splitting a colony to make two you are weakening it & possibly reducing the potential crop but if the colony has been well fed & are strong then there's every chance (weather permitting) box 1 will pull a crop & in a good year even box 2.
You really should have a read of the pages at the Top Bar Beekeeping forum A lot more experience there than I can speak & Phil Chandler isn't far from you.

hedgehogpie

Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 684
Location: Kent

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 09 8:00 am Post subject:

This is basically what I plan to do next year if possible and the process has been bothering me too, because TBH's and Nationals are so very different. My course is finishing now and it looks like I'll have to start with a nuc and National while I get into the swing of things, but I really would like to get into TBH's as soon as the opportunity arises so I'll be watching how you get on with interest Jamanda.

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