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deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 04 9:20 pm Post subject: Ballistics

With the growing interest in shooting for the pot, ever wondered what weapon and ammunition combination gives you the edge, whilst still being humane?

People don't bother much with ballistics, because they think it's boring. But doing your homework (and the maths) on this subject pays dividends in the field.

I sometimes instruct people in field ballistics, so if you have a question please post (and if I don't know the answer, I'll do my best to find out)!

Joey

Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 191

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 04 9:02 pm Post subject:
DS, What are your thoughts on the WSM and WSSM calibres?

deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 04 10:24 pm Post subject:

Interesting one!

Short magnums were developed in the USA where the terrain and ethics of shooting are different!

As I understand it, if you increase the charge behind the bullet then you increase the muzzle velocity.
Obviously, to get more powder in, you either have to elongate the case, or increase its diameter.

To increase the length of the case is more costly when re-designing the weapon. The chamber has to be longer, the receiver has to be lengthened, the bolt re-designed, ejection port lengthened etc etc.

To make the cartridge fatter is a cheaper option.

Because striking energy is directly affected by the bullet weight (which doesn't change). The real advantages, considering the type of shooting we do in this country are questionable.

In the UK 99% of all shots are taken at under 200 yards, 80% at 100 yards or less (hence the "stalking" in Deerstalking), making this type of cartridge somewhat redundant!

Other problems include:
Convincing the police of need (when there are so many other well used calibres in use).
Cost, �2.00 plus per shot!

Any further info. required let me know.

mrsnesbitt

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1576

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 5:51 am Post subject:
DEERSTALKER, FOUND THIS FOR YOU! DENISE

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45676
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 8:26 am Post subject:

Legion

Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 9:31 am Post subject:

Must disagree with you there deerstalker.
The super short magnum are a direct result of the american use of the 6ppc family which proved that a short fat stack of propellant provided
a) a more efficient ignition
b) a more consistant velocity
Therefore combined with the improved shape of the cartridge a balistically superior ammunition....but, for stalking its pretty much irrelivant, a passing fad.

deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 10:43 am Post subject:

Trust you to cause an argument!

Looking at ballistic tables, each weight and design of a projectile, has a maximum velocity before yaw sets in. These type of cartridges push bullet design to that limit. Although these cartridges have a higher muzzle velocity, they tend to lose accuracy over distance because of tumble (even in boat tailed designs).

There is no advantage in stopping power (energy), because the mass remains the same!

Thus bullet energy (E) is a function of both its mass (M) and velocity (V). Therefore (E=0.5M.V squared).

Legion

Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 12:53 pm Post subject:

I know

If you read my post,I have never mentioned bullet design, we are talking case design, and as such the fat short shape allows the most efficient use of the powder to obtain maximum and consistant velocity.Obviously the amount of powder affects the bullet velocity.

The drawback to the wssm design is awkward feeding and pushed to the limits throat errosion and barrel wear.To make this design attractive they have to up the velocity accordingly. You get nowt for nowt in ballistics.

Personally I would stick with a tuned 243 every time.

deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 1:09 pm Post subject:
Ahem......you mean .270 (thought it was owt for nowt in your home county )

mrsnesbitt

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1576

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 5:09 pm Post subject:
so do you like pic DS?

Legion

Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 8:23 pm Post subject:

Deerstalker wrote:

Ahem......you mean .270

(thought it was owt for nowt in your home county

)

We were talking about a versatile centrefire and I agree 270 is a superb calibre for highland stags. Unless you only went stalking the largest of deer it would be seldom used. The 243 can go from 55g for varmints to 105g for large deer covering most quarry in this country. If you had the opportunity to shoot stags you could borrow the estate rifle. Plus, the police are very unlikely to issue a 270 licence in england for anything other than large deer over a large area .

deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 10:29 pm Post subject:

mrsnesbitt wrote:

so do you like pic DS?

Got the hat right.

Better looking than me.

Probably do better with the tennis racquet!

deerstalker

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 04 10:45 pm Post subject:

Legion wrote:

Plus, the police are very unlikely to issue a 270 licence in england for anything other than large deer over a large area .

Don,t tell them then!

The .243 is a great dual purpose rifle, but I do like the .270 for the big three!

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