Rifle shooting - shooting Foxes the correct tool for me

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Rifle shooting - shooting Foxes the correct tool for me
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vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 3:25 pm Post subject:
Sounds pretty sensible to me. I would add that quick reaction shooting (emotive) is best left to Holywood film directors. Never rush a shot as you won't have time to think carefully before pulling the trigger. Set up the shot carefully and err on the side of extreme caution. Edit: One more thing, don't use target or non expanding bullets to shoot quarry.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 4:21 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Edit: One more thing, don't use target or non expanding bullets to shoot quarry.

I thought dum dums were banned?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 4:36 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

vegplot wrote:

Edit: One more thing, don't use target or non expanding bullets to shoot quarry.

I thought dum dums were banned?

Under the Hague Convention yes but not when it come to shooting quarry. Expanding bullets help ensure a quick clean kill and are far less prone to ricochet.

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 4:38 pm Post subject:
If I'd got a gun in hand and a fox had got or was in pursuit of one my birds, then I'd shoot it with whatever I had in my hand as long as it was safe to do so of course. If I was to go out purposefully to shoot a fox, then I'd take the correct tool for the job.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 4:47 pm Post subject:
Do you need them specially mentioned on your FAC? Or is ammo ammo?

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 4:53 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

Do you need them specially mentioned on your FAC? Or is ammo ammo?

You're required to have an entry on your FAC for that particular calibre. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) buy expanding ammunition or bullets without it.

For instance, I have several calibres on my FAC but only one is authorised to be for expanding bullets.

If you're authorised to shoot quarry with a particular calibre the police will expect you to use expanding ammunition and will mark your FAC as such.

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 5:01 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

Do you need them specially mentioned on your FAC? Or is ammo ammo?

On my FAC it states expanding ammo,for my centre fire it states i can shoot foxes and with my rimfire's it states vermin witch includes foxes

Bodger

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13524

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 5:13 pm Post subject:
I'm sure that we had a thread on here or else I've listened to a conversation at the gun club where it transpired that foxes aren't actually classed as vermin when it comes to your FAC.

RichardW

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8443
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 5:27 pm Post subject:

bodger wrote:

I'm sure that we had a thread on here or else I've listened to a conversation at the gun club where it transpired that foxes aren't actually classed as vermin when it comes to your FAC.

I have watched that type of thread on a shooting forum. Normally it goes on for 20 plus pages with lots of quotes from lots of docs & FAC's but still no final conclusion.

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 5:29 pm Post subject:
When i spoke to the fao i was told foxes were classed as vermin for rimfires,but its got to state foxes on your fac for centrefire

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 5:31 pm Post subject:

RichardW wrote:

bodger wrote:

I'm sure that we had a thread on here or else I've listened to a conversation at the gun club where it transpired that foxes aren't actually classed as vermin when it comes to your FAC.

I have watched that type of thread on a shooting forum. Normally it goes on for 20 plus pages with lots of quotes from lots of docs & FAC's but still no final conclusion.

The easy answer is to speak to your local police firearms department as they're the ones who will be writing the condition on your FAC. A variation to get fox specifically added is free so no point taking a risk.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 6:37 pm Post subject:
There is no hard and fast rule only guidance. Forum/club talk leads to a lot of myth and misunderstanding. Speak to your FAO as Treacodactyl suggests, it is they (or more correctly their chief officer) who you have to satisfy. I'll quickly qualify that and add there are laws on minimum calibres/ muzzle energy for certain types of quarry. See BASC for further details https://www.basc.org.uk/

bodillymill

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Cornwall

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 09 9:50 pm Post subject: expanding amunition!!!

Wow! I joined a month ago and saw a great crowd of folk's all with a common purpose, and I saw a proper mix of ideas and experiences..... then I saw a shooting section a poultry section and I thought wooby doo!
Fyi
your firearms license allows expanding ammunition under certain circumstances.

Hollow soft point is also allowed for rabbits etc...

Maybe a little known fact, apart from the original Russian steel rounds that they invented in WWII and then stopped using because it wore the rifle bores down and accuracy went out like hot butter....all bullets expand upon impact... so all are expanding.... to some extent.

Remember as much as you may feel awkward about it, use the absolutely correct and most humane way of doing it.... In my experience it has always been a well placed shot.

The BASC site is a very good site to visit for further reading though sometimes the newbie can feel swamped or talked down too... many shooters can be elitist....

A good local gunsmith as stated will know someone who you could ask even in the rare case he or she cannot answer your question.

whitelegg1

Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 409
Location: Woodford Green

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 09 7:50 am Post subject:

As for Rimfire calibres.
.17HMR & .22 WMR are suitable at appropriate ranges.
Aprropriate = the lesser of the rounds capability or your capability.

.22LR is OK at short range, maybe sub 50 yards.....BUT your shot placement has to be super spot on......In the right place it will still do the job... Some Police regions frown/do not allow this cartridges use on fox.

Best to check with your Police firearms unit....and possible that of the area you will be shooting in....(not always the same)....One gives you the permissions on your cert, the other one will be the one's who turn up if you are a naughty boy !!!

Centrefire, do know, I haven't got one! Anything from .17 Remington to .308 dependant on range......

The sensible thing with a problem fox would be to get it to come to you at a place of your choice......where you have arranged for it to be a safe shot.

Pete

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 09 9:05 am Post subject: Re: expanding amunition!!!

bodillymill wrote:

all bullets expand upon impact... so all are expanding.... to some extent.

All bullets deform to some extent on impact which isn't the same as expansion when pertaining to deliberate bullet deformation with the intent to cause maximum wounding.

We shoot into sand at the range and large calibre bullets rarely do any meaningful expansion, they lose part or all of their jackets and sometimes look as though they could be reused. .17HMR's are impossible to find and .223 often start tumbling on impact, during the Vietnam conflict this little round was said to be, by the press, an expanding round as it caused massive injuries but it this was not the case it just tumbled easily on contact.

Larger calibres don't deform a great deal when hitting animal flesh unless they are designed to.

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