Funds transfer clearance

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Funds transfer clearance

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Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:36 am Post subject: Funds transfer clearance
Why, in the Modern Age, do payments from one account in organisation A to another account in organisation B have to "clear". Even an internet banking payment has to "clear" for three working days. Are there any technical or practical reasons for this, or are banks thieving charlatans? Discuss... A.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46216
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:37 am Post subject:
the latter

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Funds transfer clearance

Barefoot Andrew wrote:

Why, in the Modern Age, do payments from one account in organisation A to another account in organisation B have to "clear". Even an internet banking payment has to "clear" for three working days. Are there any technical or practical reasons for this, or are banks thieving charlatans? Discuss...
A.

The latter, when I was building the house they would still take the max 5 days to clear building society cheques, and take the effing charges!!

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:44 am Post subject:
No, no real reasons now. However, two things to bear in mind... 1: Transfers with the same bank are usually 'instant' now. 2: As from sometime next year (IIRC) clearing will be down to a single night.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:45 am Post subject:
Very much the latter - it's very lucrative for Banks

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 10:59 am Post subject:
There's also CHAPS, for serious money. And what I refer to as "the poor man's CHAPS" - go to the bank, draw cash (don't count it or even take it across the counter), then present a 'paid-in' slip for the account its going to, and pay it straight back in as cash. Its shows up on the other account (at the very worst) overnight. Maybe be ready to explain it to the money-laundering people, though...

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 11:27 am Post subject:

Money laundering people don't notice you if it's a business account, or, in private accounts, unless you go over �4,000, in which case it's registered. Nothing can happen, but a record will be made at a special department. And it only applies to deposits, not withdrawals. And, as long as you can explain it, there's no problem.

If you can't, make multiple sub �4,000 deposits. They don't get registered. Um. Apparently.

bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 11:30 am Post subject:

dougal wrote:

There's also CHAPS, for serious money.

Oh yeah - we did one of those last year - bl***y Lloyds TSB tried to charge me �30 for the privelege as I wanted the money transferred into an account which was not one of theirs - they couldn't explain to me how it could ever cost �30 - all they said is that they have to send a fax to Birmingham

- I hate Lloyds TSB

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 11:49 am Post subject:

bernie-woman wrote:

- I hate Lloyds TSB

Oh, I've got lots more reasons to dislike them, but that's not for now.

They can, in fairness, charge what they like for it as they're provide a risk-unmanaged service. However, �30 is still steep concidering you can get if for about 30p if you're a company.

bernie-woman

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7824
Location: shropshire

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 12:21 pm Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

However, �30 is still steep concidering you can get if for about 30p if you're a company.

It wasn't so much the amount but the fact that they were desperately trying to get me to put the money into one of their accounts (charge free of course) and that they couldn't be honest about why they want to charge that amount - just this pathetic fax excuse - I need to stop talking about them I really, really hate them (there are other reasons)

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 1:17 pm Post subject:

I had an unhelpful chat with HSBC earlier. A direct debit goes out of my account today which takes me over my overdraft limit. They said they'd honour the DD but charge me �25, despite the fact they can readily see uncleared funds in my business account that aren't available to me until tomorrow.

I had a chat with a very helpful chap at the Banking Ombudsman - who echoed NL's comments that from 2008 (poss 2009) the three days will be reduced to one.

He went on to say that although the ethics of charging �25 when there are uncleared funds elsewhere might be distasteful, no breach of FSA regulations has occured and HSBC can charge me �25 if they wish.

I was going to pen a constructive letter to the bank formally asking them to waive the fee, but I've borrowed the �80 shortfall from elsewhere and side-stepped the whole shebang.

Effing banks...
A.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 1:25 pm Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

bernie-woman wrote:

... Lloyds TSB tried to charge me �30 for (a CHAPS transfer}... - I hate Lloyds TSB

.... �30 is still steep concidering you can get if for about 30p if you're a company.

Care to tell more about the 30p?
NatWest charge 'business customers' about 100x that for CHAPS.

And want to charge businesses for cash handling (aspect to watch for with 'poor man's CHAPS) - I can see the point for mixed coppers, but not for �50 notes at the same %...

The cost of banking cash explains the eagerness of supermarkets, etc, to offer 'cashback'...

Northern_Lad

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 1:31 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

Care to tell more about the 30p?
NatWest charge 'business customers' about 100x that for CHAPS.

Can't give you much detail as I don't know - fairly sure it's done throught the RoyLine system, and we're talking a few hundred payments a week.

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 07 1:51 pm Post subject:

Northern_Lad wrote:

dougal wrote:

Care to tell more about the 30p?
NatWest charge 'business customers' about 100x that for CHAPS.

Can't give you much detail as I don't know - fairly sure it's done throught the RoyLine system, and we're talking a few hundred payments a week.

Odd.

Google shows Royline as being RBS, but the pages aren't there any more.
Google's cache indicates that RoyLine may already have been subsumed into Bankline. (Searching RBS's site for RoyLine also gives lots of hits for pages that aren't there anymore! )
And Bankline offers BACs and CHAPS. I can well imagine BACs transfers being charged at 30p or so. But not CHAPS, surely?
https://www.rbs.co.uk/corporate/electronic-services/g1/bankline/payments-transfers.ashx

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