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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 04 10:12 pm Post subject:
I don;t know enough to know how much of an effect the legislation has on gun crime. Such debates tend to get clouded with iffy statistics in my experience. What I do know, is the tough gun control in this Country can only help in preventing a gun culture deveoping faster than it already is, and I think that is no bad thing, even if it is a pain for people with legitmate use for a gun. jema

Bugs

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 04 10:23 pm Post subject:

If my timelines are right when these kind of regulations really started coming in to effect, I was still very much in the "all firearms are bad, why should anyone legitimately need them" camp. I was (and still am) also a vegetarian so my view a bit coloured by the "let's live in harmony with the happy fluffy animals" attitude.

Since then I've shot a few shotguns (at clays) and various air and FAC rifles (under supervision at a rifle club and school) and love it (apart from when I hurt my shoulder

). Most importantly I've learned the real damage that firearms can do through some basic but well-intentioned training - and that safely maintained, safely used firearms are not any more dangerous than many other things which have yet to be regulated!

I'm particurlarly concerned to learn more about safely using firearms - and at the same time, learning to respect them properly. Part of the problem with these regulations is that it makes it more difficult for those who want to learn to do so - I expect that's partly the point.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 04 10:33 pm Post subject:

Quote:

What I do know, is the tough gun control in this Country can only help in preventing a gun culture deveoping faster than it already is

I'm not sure about this as, by banning some types of guns, it gives them a certain status. I'm not sure you can say this if it's not backed up by any facts and I don't know of any independent facts about gun crime. Are there any?

D_Brundle

Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 2

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 04 1:14 am Post subject:

Hello Deerstalker, hello one and all.

I see someone has mentioned the "gun culture" word. You often hear this bandied about but I fail to see how the blame is left at the door of legal shooting pursuits.

You see to my mind you're talking about a "gun culture" that glamourises firearms and teaches that the way to solve problems is through violence.

The only culture you ever encounter in legitimate shooting pursuits is first of all a deeply embedded culture of responsibility, responsibility for the safety of oneself and others. The first lesson you'll ever learn is how to safely handle a weapon long before you ever get a chance to fire it.

What you're actually talking about is something completely separate. Action against shooting sports is not going to affect the "gun culture" you're concerned about. If anything you will accelerate the development of this "gun culture" since you're removing an element of society promoting safety and responsibility in firearms handling.

At one time I was a pistol instructor at my club. I often encountered new members who'd got most of their ideas of what shooting was about from TV or films. My approach was always to patiently explain what we were about and quite a few went away disappointed. There were some however who gave it a try, found it was nothing like what they'd expected but nevetheless discovered an interesting and rewarding pursuit.

I love Target Shooting for a number of reasons. One thing is the sheer variety. I also like the fact that Target Shooting is a sport that allows men and women, the able bodied and the disabled to compete on a level playing field. It remains one of the few sports that is truly amateur and the way competitions are run allows beginners to compete an a level playing field. As they progress through the sport there is a real sense of achivement.

One poster mentioned the difficulty in learning to find somewhere to find somewhere to learn to shoot safely. Drop me a PM about what you're interested in and I'll see if I can make a few recommendations.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 04 8:44 am Post subject:
Welcome to Downsizer, Mr Brundle. Cheers, Sean

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 04 10:32 am Post subject:
I think the phrase 'Gun Culture' exclusively refers to illegally held weapons. I think in light of this discussion on RC. It would be useful if someone who was for relaxing the gun restrictions, could post in detail why they support that motion to kick this off.

Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 04 12:14 am Post subject:

Depends what you mean by restrictions?

I'm certainly not in favour of relaxing the licensng regime, I would certainly like to see a repeal of the pistol ban. I've never understand why pump action rifles are banned, whereas level action or bolt action rifles are legal so I'd clear up that anomaly. I can see an argument for allowing some semi-automatic rifles but not so keen on the military style rifles with large capacity magazines.

Does that confuse or give a starter for ten?

D_Brundle

Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 2

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 04 12:15 am Post subject:
Sorry forgot to log in, noob mistake.

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 04 11:29 am Post subject:

I never could understand the restriction on pump-action or semi-auto shotguns. Faced with a large flight of pigeon over rape or peas, they're ideal guns, with low recoil and greater ease of use, as you don't have to keep breaking the gun in a cramped hide to reload.
On the broader issue, gun crime seems to have risen inexorably despite legislation. My own experience is that by teaching the responsible use of firearms you also teach people to treat them with respect and not fool around with them, as Bugs has stated. Sadly firearms control is an easy political point to score, and the urban majority will usually go along with it.
Some of the tightening-up that came after Hungerford was, in my opinion, no bad thing; no-one can object to keeping their guns in a secure, locked cabinet or having to have a character reference before acquiring a firearm. The ban on pump-action and semi-auto shotguns was a mistake, however.
The post-Dunblane response, on the other hand, seems to me to have been knee-jerk hysteria fomented by the Daily Mirror and the Mail, and to have had zero effect on gun-related crime (other than, possibly, bringing previously undeclared pistols onto the black market and into the hands of criminals). It would be a brave politician who advocated relazing the pistol ban, though - imagine the reaction of the tabloids!

scarecrow

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Manchester, Up North

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 4:54 pm Post subject:
I'm glad to see that for once there is a debate about Firearms that hasn't degenerated into a slanging match. Well done to all involved for the adult and erudite way this topic has been handled!

twoscoops

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1924
Location: Warwickshire

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 4:59 pm Post subject:

scarecrow wrote:

I'm glad to see that for once there is a debate about Firearms that hasn't degenerated into a slanging match.

We're only ten posts in, scarecrow. Watch this space...

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 5:00 pm Post subject:

scarecrow

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Manchester, Up North

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 5:01 pm Post subject:
Can anyone give a quick overview of the law on firearms... All I know (and this may be out of date) is... Air Rifles - No licence but must be over 13 shot guns - Police licence required Hand guns - Banned

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45669
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 5:03 pm Post subject:
There's quite a few registered users that are into firearms, I'm sure one of them will be able to clarify for you.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28233
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 04 5:31 pm Post subject:

Twoscoops wrote:

scarecrow wrote:

I'm glad to see that for once there is a debate about Firearms that hasn't degenerated into a slanging match.

We're only ten posts in, scarecrow. Watch this space...

true, but 10 posts is enough for a full scale flame war to break out on most forums

jema

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